Subtraction point not physical mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of choosing a subtraction point in the context of renormalization, particularly in relation to self-energy corrections in quantum field theory. Participants explore the implications of selecting a subtraction point that is not equal to the physical mass, examining different approaches and their consequences in theoretical formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is possible to make a subtraction from a point not equal to the physical mass in conventional renormalization, highlighting the difficulty in expressing the propagator in a certain form without choosing the physical mass as the subtraction point.
  • Another participant asserts that it is indeed possible to choose a subtraction point other than the physical mass, discussing the utility of different subtraction schemes and the dependence of the renormalized mass on the energy scale.
  • A similar viewpoint is reiterated, emphasizing the flexibility in choosing subtraction schemes and the importance of the energy scale in determining the renormalized mass.
  • One participant critiques the common approach of expanding around the physical mass, suggesting that this method is a convenient way to handle self-energy corrections, but may not be necessary in all cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness and implications of choosing a subtraction point that is not the physical mass. While some argue for the validity of alternative subtraction points, others emphasize the traditional approach centered around the physical mass, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the utility of expanding about different points in the context of self-energy corrections, as well as the implications of various subtraction schemes on the renormalized mass and its dependence on the energy scale.

geoduck
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In conventional renormalization, for the self-energy, is it possible to make a subtraction from a point not equal to the physical mass?

[tex]\frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma(\mu^2)-\Sigma'(\mu^2)(p^2-\mu^2)-...}[/tex]

Now define [itex]m_o^2+\Sigma(\mu^2)\equiv m(\mu^2)[/itex]

Then:

[tex]\frac{1}{p^2-m(\mu)^2-\Sigma'(\mu^2)(p^2-\mu^2)-...}[/tex]

But you can't seem to write this in the form [itex]\frac{Z}{p^2-m(\mu)^2-\text{finite}}[/itex]

unless you choose [itex]\mu^2=m(\mu^2)[/itex]. But this choice corresponds to the physical mass.

But in BPZ renormalization, you have no problems working with a mass that depends on scale μ, and a scale is like a subtraction point is it not?
 
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It is possible to choose a subtraction point besides the physical mass. I'm not familiar with how you're writing the self-energy (what's the utility in expanding about [itex]p^2 = \mu^2[/itex]?), but writing the bare propagator as

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(p^2)} $$

we can choose any subtraction scheme to obtain a finite self energy [itex]\Sigma_R[/itex], and then simply write the propagator as

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_R^2-\Sigma_{R}(p^2)} .$$

Now [itex]m_R[/itex] is a parameter dependent on your subtraction scheme, and thus dependent on [itex]\mu[/itex], and it will take the value [itex]m_R^2 = m_P^2 - \Sigma_R(m_P^2)[/itex]. The dependence of renormalized mass on the energy scale [itex]\mu[/itex] is physically important, especially for studying critical exponents.

EDIT: And of course, the [itex]\mu[/itex] dependence of [itex]Z = (1-\Sigma'_R(m_P^2))^{-1}[/itex] is also very important
 
Last edited:
king vitamin said:
It is possible to choose a subtraction point besides the physical mass. I'm not familiar with how you're writing the self-energy (what's the utility in expanding about [itex]p^2 = \mu^2[/itex]?), but writing the bare propagator as

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(p^2)} $$

we can choose any subtraction scheme to obtain a finite self energy [itex]\Sigma_R[/itex], and then simply write the propagator as

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_R^2-\Sigma_{R}(p^2)} .$$

Textbooks start with the bare propagator as you have, but then make an expansion about the physical mass:

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(p^2)}=\frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(m_p^2)-\Sigma'_{0}(m_p^2)(p^2-m_p^2)-...} $$

They then say the definition of the physical mass is that [itex]m_o^2+\Sigma_{0}(m_p^2)=m_p^2[/itex], so that

$$ \frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(p^2)}=\frac{1}{p^2-m_o^2-\Sigma_{0}(m_p^2)-\Sigma'_{0}(m_p^2)(p^2-m_p^2)-...}=
\frac{1}{(p^2-m_p^2)-\Sigma'_{0}(m_p^2)(p^2-m_p^2)-...}
$$

Then the (1-Ʃ')-1 can be factored out, which is Z:

$$
=\frac{(1-\Sigma'(m_p))^{-1}}{(p^2-m_p^2)-\Sigma_{R}(p^2)}
$$

That is how they got the relation: Z=(1-Ʃ')-1.

But this doesn't seem to work if Taylor expand Ʃ about a different point than the physical mass.

So textbooks basically manipulate Ʃ0 directly and define the physical mass from it, whereas you define the physical mass from the renormalized ƩR and the finite m2(μ).
 
Last edited:
If you will calculate the self energy correction by taking into account the inifinities of diagram and use some identity like 1/A+B=1/A-(1/A)B(1/A)+... you will see the result getting around the physical mass.This idea is just translated into a much convenient way without doing it always .They make an expansion around physical mass because that is the way it comes around.
 

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