Sudden ceasing of energy generation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the hypothetical scenario of the sun suddenly ceasing energy generation, exploring the potential consequences on its structure and fate. Participants examine various theoretical outcomes, including the sun's transformation into different stellar objects and the timescales involved in observing such changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the sun stopped energy generation, it would take approximately 8.5 minutes for the effects to be observed due to the speed of light, while others suggest it could take up to 10 million years based on photon travel times from the core to the surface.
  • There is contention regarding whether the sun would become a black hole, with some arguing it would not due to its insufficient mass, while others suggest it could collapse into a white dwarf after burning out.
  • One participant suggests that the sun would initially glow as a hot ember due to stored thermal energy before collapsing under gravity as pressure gradients fail.
  • Another viewpoint posits that the sun could become a degenerate object similar to a brown dwarf if fusion stopped, noting that significant changes would occur on the Kelvin-Helmholtz timescale, estimated at around 30 million years.
  • Participants discuss the role of pressure in stellar stability, with some clarifying that pressure is maintained by energy generation rather than caused by it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the sun's fate if energy generation ceases, with no consensus reached on whether it would become a black hole, a white dwarf, or a brown dwarf.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include various assumptions about stellar evolution and the definitions of different stellar objects, which may influence the interpretations of outcomes. The role of neutrino detection in observing changes is also mentioned, highlighting the complexity of the scenario.

blumfeld0
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I always wondered what would happen if the sun suddenly stopped doing energy generation.
i know that it would us 8.5 minutes to find as limited by the speed of light.

or perhaps 10 million years to find out as that is how long it would take a photon to travel from the core to the surface according to random walk calculations. is this a possibility?

would the sun become a black hole as gravity took over and won and pressure (caused by energy generation) stopped?
what would happen?


thanks
 
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would the sun become a black hole as gravity took over and won and pressure (caused by energy generation) stopped?

It would not become a black hole - it is too small. After the sun burns out (in about 5 billion years) it will eventually collapse into a white dwarf.
 
It would glow as a hot ember (it still has all that stored thermal energy after all) and slowly collapse as the thermal and radiative pressure gradients could not hold up against gravity.
 
I always wondered what would happen if the sun suddenly stopped doing energy generation.

If all fusion stopped suddenly, I suspect the sun would eventually become a degenerate object very similar to a brown dwarf, which is a star that wasn't massive enough to ignite hydrogen in its core. They're very cool and very dim, so we've only just recently been able to observe them.

In order for a white dwarf to be formed, the envelope would have to be stripped. In the absence of shell hydrogen burning around the core, I don't think this could occur.
i know that it would us 8.5 minutes to find as limited by the speed of light.

If our neutrino detectors were on, we could potentially find out in 8.5 minutes because they would stop being formed in the fusion reactions. Otherwise, however, the change probably wouldn't be noticable in a human lifetime.
or perhaps 10 million years to find out as that is how long it would take a photon to travel from the core to the surface according to random walk calculations. is this a possibility?

Significant changes would occur on the Kelvin-Helmholtz timescale, which is the approximate time it takes the sun to radiate its gravitational potential energy. This is around 30 million years for the sun.
would the sun become a black hole as gravity took over and won and pressure (caused by energy generation) stopped?

Pressure is not caused by energy generation, it is just maintained by it. As franz said, the star would gradually cool and drop in temperature, leading to a gradual drop in thermal energy. In order to compensate, the star would have to collapse. The end result would not be a black hole because the sun is not above the Chandrasekhar mass, as mathman implied.
 
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