Supremum Property (AoC) .... etc .... Another question/Issue

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SUMMARY

The discussion revolves around Theorem 2.1.45 from Houshang H. Sohrab's "Basic Real Analysis" (Second Edition), specifically addressing the Supremum Property, the Archimedean Property, and the Nested Intervals Theorem. Participants clarify the logic behind the conditions that either \( k_{n+1} = 2k_n \) or \( k_{n+1} = 2k - 1 \), as well as the relationship \( I_{n+1} \subset I_n \). The conclusion emphasizes that \( k_{n+1} \) must be greater than \( 2k_n - 2 \) and less than or equal to \( 2k_n \), confirming the validity of the theorem's implications.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of real analysis concepts, particularly sequences and series.
  • Familiarity with the Supremum Property and its implications.
  • Knowledge of the Archimedean Property in real numbers.
  • Basic comprehension of set notation, specifically subset relationships.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Supremum Property in detail, focusing on its applications in real analysis.
  • Explore the Archimedean Property and its role in establishing bounds in sequences.
  • Investigate the Nested Intervals Theorem and its significance in real number theory.
  • Review proofs and examples related to Theorem 2.1.45 for deeper understanding.
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Students of real analysis, educators teaching mathematical concepts, and anyone seeking clarity on the Supremum Property and its related theorems.

Math Amateur
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I am reading Houshang H. Sohrab's book: "Basic Real Analysis" (Second Edition).

I am focused on Chapter 2: Sequences and Series of Real Numbers ... ...

I need help with another issue/problem with Theorem 2.1.45 concerning the Supremum Property (AoC), the Archimedean Property, and the Nested Intervals Theorem ... ...

Theorem 2.1.45 reads as follows:
?temp_hash=7ce44f56e42685cf4d94406e9e8004ed.png

?temp_hash=7ce44f56e42685cf4d94406e9e8004ed.png
In the above proof by Sohrab, we read the following:

" ... ... Thus while (by definition) ##s + \frac{k_n}{2^n} = s + \frac{2 k_n}{ 2^{n + 1} }## is an upper bound of ##S, s + \frac{ 2 k_n - 2 }{ 2^{n + 1} } = s + \frac{k_n - 1 }{2^n}## is not. Therefore, either ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k_n## or ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k - 1## and ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## follow. ... ... "I am uncertain and somewhat confused by the logic of the above ...

I am not sure of the argument that either ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k_n## or ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k - 1## ... can someone please explain in simple terms why it is valid ... ..

I am also not sure exactly why ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## ... if anything it seems to me that ##I_{ n + 1 } = I_n## ... again, can someone please explain in simple terms why ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## ... that is that ##I_{ n + 1 }## is a proper subset of ##I_n## ... ...

[ ***EDIT*** Just checked and found that Sohrab is using \subset in the sense which includes equality ... so using ##\subset## as meaning ##\subseteq## ... ]Help will be appreciated ...

Peter
==========================================================================================The above theorem concerns the Supremum Property, the Archimedean Property and the Nested Intervals Theorem ... so to give readers the context and notation regarding the above post I am posting the basic information on these properties/theorems ...
?temp_hash=7ce44f56e42685cf4d94406e9e8004ed.png
?temp_hash=7ce44f56e42685cf4d94406e9e8004ed.png

?temp_hash=7ce44f56e42685cf4d94406e9e8004ed.png
 

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  • Sohrab - 1 - Theorem 2.1.45 ... - PART 1 ... ....png
    Sohrab - 1 - Theorem 2.1.45 ... - PART 1 ... ....png
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  • Sohrab - 2 - Theorem 2.1.45 ... - PART 2 ... ....png
    Sohrab - 2 - Theorem 2.1.45 ... - PART 2 ... ....png
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  • Sohrab - Axiom of Completeness ... Supremum Property ....png
    Sohrab - Axiom of Completeness ... Supremum Property ....png
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  • Sohrab - Theorem 2.1.31 - Archimedean Property ... ....png
    Sohrab - Theorem 2.1.31 - Archimedean Property ... ....png
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  • Sohrab - Theorem 2.1.43 ... Nested Intervals Theorem ....png
    Sohrab - Theorem 2.1.43 ... Nested Intervals Theorem ....png
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Last edited:
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Math Amateur said:
In the above proof by Sohrab, we read the following:

" ... ... Thus while (by definition) ##s + \frac{k_n}{2^n} = s + \frac{2 k_n}{ 2^{n + 1} }## is an upper bound of ##S, s + \frac{ 2 k_n - 2 }{ 2^{n + 1} } = s + \frac{k_n - 1 }{2^n}## is not. Therefore, either ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k_n## or ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k - 1## and ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## follow. ... ... "I am uncertain and somewhat confused by the logic of the above ...

I am not sure of the argument that either ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k_n## or ##k_{ n+1 } = 2k - 1## ... can someone please explain in simple terms why it is valid ... ..

I am also not sure exactly why ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## ... if anything it seems to me that ##I_{ n + 1 } = I_n## ... again, can someone please explain in simple terms why ##I_{ n + 1 } \subset I_n## ... that is that ##I_{ n + 1 }## is a proper subset of ##I_n##
I assume you accept the statement that ##s + \frac{ 2 k_n - 2 }{ 2^{n + 1} }## is not an upper bound of ##S##. If not, this post won't help.

##k_{n+1}## is defined as the smallest ##m\in\mathbb N## such that ##s+k_{n+1}/2^{n+1}## is an UB for ##S##. We know that ##s+(2k_n-2)/2^{n+1}## is not an UB, therefore it must be too small to be an UB. So we must have ##k_{n+1}> 2k_n-2##.

How much bigger does ##k_{n+1}## have to be? We know that ##2k_n## is big enough. So ##k_{n+1}\leq 2k_n##.

The only integers ##m## that satisfy ##2k_n-2 < m \leq 2k_n## are those two the text names.
 
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Thanks Andrew ... now understand ...

Your post was most helpful ...

Peter
 

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