System of two differential equations with trigonometric functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of partial differential equations involving trigonometric functions, specifically focusing on the equations for x(s,t) and y(s,t). Participants explore various strategies for finding closed-form solutions, approximations, and alternative coordinate systems that might simplify the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests dividing the equations to obtain a single ordinary differential equation (ODE) for dy/dx, indicating a potential approach to simplify the system.
  • Another participant expresses surprise at the numerical solutions provided by Mathematica and Maple, questioning their effectiveness in solving the system.
  • A participant shares their attempts with Mathematica and Maple, noting that both yield numerical solutions involving integrals, which they interpret as a failure to find a closed form.
  • In an edit, a participant reports deriving y(x) from the division of equations but acknowledges the need to solve the first differential equation to find x(t).
  • One participant proposes integrating with respect to t to find x(s,t) and y(s,t), suggesting a form that includes an arbitrary function of s.
  • Another participant challenges this approach, arguing that x(s,t) cannot be treated as a constant and must account for its dependence on t.
  • A further response emphasizes that the first equation is separable and suggests substituting the found x into the equation for y, which also becomes separable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods to solve the system, with some proposing specific techniques while others challenge those methods. There is no consensus on a definitive solution or approach, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their attempts, including the complexity of the equations and the challenges of using software packages effectively. The discussion highlights the need for careful consideration of the dependencies of variables in the equations.

mnb96
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Hello,
do you have any strategy to suggest in order to solve the following system of partial differential equations in x(s,t) and y(s,t)?

[tex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t} = x - \frac{1}{2}\sin(2x)[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial y}{\partial t} = y \; \sin^2(x)[/tex]

(note that the partial differentiation is always with respect to t).
In case it might be useful, I can safely assume that the codomain of x(s,t) and y(s,t) is [-1,1].

I already tried with Maple and Mathematica but they only give me numerical solutions.
An approximation would be ok for me, as long as I get a closed form for x and y.

I was also wondering if you think there might exist another system of coordinates in which this system is easier to solve

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
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You might try dividing one equation by the other (left hand side by left hand side and right hand side by right hand side) and get a single ode for dy/dx. The result is of the form y'=f(x)*y.
I am surprised that mathematica is not able to solve this.
 
...it is also possible that I don't know how to use properly those packages, as I am a total beginner. For Mathematica I used the following syntax:
------ DSolve[{D[x[t], t] == x[t] - 1/2*Sin[2*x[t]], D[y[t], t] == y[t]*Sin[x[t]]^2}, {x[t], y[t]}, t]

while for Maple:
------ dsolve({diff(x(t), t) = x(t)-(1/2)*sin(2*x(t)), diff(y(t), t) = y(t)*sin(x(t))^2}, {x(t), y(t)})

With both packages I obtain a numerical solution involving integrals, which I guess indicates a failure in finding a closed form solution.

***********
*** EDIT: ***
***********
I tried to divide the first equation by the second, as you suggested and obtained:

[tex]y(x)=\pm \sqrt{\frac{-2x}{\tan(x)}+c}[/tex]

but now we only have y(x), and I guess we still need to solve the first differential equation in order to obtain x(t), am I right?
Am I also free to set c=0 ?
 
Last edited:
mnb96 said:
Hello,
do you have any strategy to suggest in order to solve the following system of partial differential equations in x(s,t) and y(s,t)?

[tex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t} = x - \frac{1}{2}\sin(2x)[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial y}{\partial t} = y \; \sin^2(x)[/tex]

(note that the partial differentiation is always with respect to t).
In case it might be useful, I can safely assume that the codomain of x(s,t) and y(s,t) is [-1,1].

I already tried with Maple and Mathematica but they only give me numerical solutions.
An approximation would be ok for me, as long as I get a closed form for x and y.

I was also wondering if you think there might exist another system of coordinates in which this system is easier to solve

Thanks.

Are you looking for x(s, t) and y(s, t). Then you just integrate with respect to t surely.

x(s, t) = xt - t/2 sin(2x) + f(s)

y(s,t) = y t sin^2 (2x) + f(s)

where f(s) is a function of s.
 
Hi hawaiifiver...I am afraid something went wrong with your solution, because you treated x(s,t) as a constant, and did not take into account that x is a function of t.
For instance the solution of the simper differential equation
[tex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t} = x(s,t)[/tex]
is not tx(t,s). It is instead [itex]x(s,t)=e^t c(s)[/itex]
 
mnb96 said:
Hi hawaiifiver...I am afraid something went wrong with your solution, because you treated x(s,t) as a constant, and did not take into account that x is a function of t.
For instance the solution of the simper differential equation
[tex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t} = x(s,t)[/tex]
is not tx(t,s). It is instead [itex]x(s,t)=e^t c(s)[/itex]

Perhaps you could elaborate on how you found x(s,t). I thought of x as a function of two variables, i.e. s and t.
 
The first equation, in x, is separable. Once you have x, including an arbitrary function of s, substitute that into the equation for y which become separable. I don't see how to do the first integration of 1/{x-sin(2x)/2}.
 

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