Taxes: How Much Should Individuals Contribute to Government Spending?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the appropriate percentage of gross national product (GNP) that should be allocated to government spending versus what should remain under individual control. Participants explore various perspectives on taxation levels, government spending, and the implications of these on social services and economic behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a total tax rate of 30% (10% federal, 10% state, 10% local) as reasonable, while noting current rates exceed 50%.
  • References to Hauser's Law are made, with some participants suggesting it indicates federal revenues remain around 20% of GDP regardless of spending levels.
  • One participant mentions the Laffer Curve, suggesting that excessive taxation may lead individuals to leave the country.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes the need for government spending to ensure social safety nets, infrastructure, education, and healthcare, arguing that current spending is insufficient.
  • Concerns are raised about the perception of "free" services, with a participant asserting that nothing is truly free.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate level of government spending and taxation, with no consensus reached on what constitutes a reasonable percentage of GNP for government consumption.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on assumptions about the effectiveness of government spending and the impact of taxation on individual behavior, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

edpell
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What percentage of gross national product do we feel government should consume? And conversely what percentage should be left in the control of individuals?

I would say that 10% for the federal level and 10% for the state level and 10% for all other levels would be reasonable. That is 30% total. I think we are now well about 50% total tax.
 
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Reminds me of the Laffer Curve. Both make sense. You squeeze hard enough and people vote with their feet (they leave).
 
Total US government (fed and local) spending is currently about about 45% of GDP. As we know some of that is deficit spending, so the revenues are necessarily lower than 45%.

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Looking at the federal spending alone, it apprears Hauser's revenue law may not be far off, at least since he coined it. Here's federal spending alone. Again I don't have revenue alone but if we subtract off the deficits now, add in the surpluses around 99, then it does indeed seem to be approximately true the revenues are around 20% no matter what.

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What percentage of gross national product do we feel government should consume?

As much as needed to provide the social safety net to all citizens, to maintain and improve infrastructure, to provide free universal education up to and including college, and to provide free healthcare to everyone.

Evident gaping holes in the U.S. coverage seem to indicate that the government does not spend enough. However, it's possible that we could end two wars and scale down defense spending, and that would be enough to provide European quality of life to all citizens, without additional spending.

edpell said:
Reminds me of the Laffer Curve. Both make sense. You squeeze hard enough and people vote with their feet (they leave).

People tend to underestimate how high taxes have to be before people start voting with their feet.

The U.S. has the second smallest government in the developed world, ahead of Canada. (And Canada does not have to finance two wars, maintain 150 F-22's, 11 aircraft carriers, and a few thousand ICBM silos.)
 
hamster143 said:
... to provide free universal education up to and including college, and to provide free healthcare to everyone.
Nothing is free.
 

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