Technical paper on Lense-Thirring Lageos measurement

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a technical paper on measuring the Lense-Thirring effect using satellite data, specifically focusing on the contributions of various authors, including Lorenzo Iorio and Ciufolini. Participants explore the implications of the findings, the accuracy of measurements, and the status of gravitational theories.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention a technical paper by Lorenzo Iorio regarding the Lense-Thirring effect, suggesting it may provide new insights or analysis of existing results.
  • Others clarify that Ciufolini is the original figure associated with earlier discussions about the Lense-Thirring effect and that Iorio's paper may be analyzing Ciufolini's satellite results.
  • One participant notes that Iorio claims the margin of error from non-gravitational sources is higher than previously estimated, although this claim is not fully substantiated in the discussion.
  • Another participant references a New Scientist article and provides a link to a recent paper by Ciufolini, indicating ongoing research in this area.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the novelty of the findings, stating that frame dragging has already been verified and suggesting that Iorio's views may be unorthodox or speculative.
  • There is mention of alternative theories to General Relativity (GR) that predict similar frame dragging effects, but participants caution that orbital data alone may not fully capture the complexities involved.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for controlled experiments, such as the Gravity Probe B (GPB), to confirm the results discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of viewpoints, with some agreeing on the significance of the Lense-Thirring effect while others contest the novelty and implications of the findings. There is no clear consensus on the validity of Iorio's claims or the necessity of further experiments.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the current understanding, including the dependence on definitions and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps related to the measurements and theories discussed.

marcus
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a technical paper appeared today about measuring L-T effect
I don't know if it is good or not, maybe others have already got a good source, but you might want to check it out

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0412044

the author is Lorenzo Iorio at univ. Bari,

I seem to recall he may be the person mentioned in connection
with "scooping" GPB, so this paper may be a scholarly version of
what we already got in the media

Or else the person mentioned was named Ciufolini, no time to check.
have to leave this post as is, maybe someone more knowledgeable about this will fill in correct detail and give a better link
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
The original 'scouper' that had much discussion was Ciufolini. The author above is analysing Ciufolini (and other) satellite results, and seems to be saying (although I haven't read it all) that the margin of error from non-gravitational sources is higher than originally estimated.

Creator
 
Yes it was Ciufolini

Willecke started thread about this earlier in another forum
and gave a link which pointed to this new scientist article:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996552

I will see if I can get a link or two to a Ciufolini article.

Yeah, here is something by Ciufolini
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0412001
LARES/WEBER-SAT, frame-dragging and fundamental physics

it is fairly recent, December 1. Will check it out, hope some others do too.
 
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I consider that old news. Frame dragging has been verified and GR has prevailed again:
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06nov97_1.htm
http://scienceweek.com/2004/sa041126-1.htm
The author of the L-T paper marcus referenced appears to have an unorthodox view of GR. Consider this paper, which I consider highly speculative:
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0404107
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Chronos said:
I consider that old news. Frame dragging has been verified and GR has prevailed again:
1. Some other modified-GR theories predict the same frame dragging result as GR, Moffat's Nonsymmetric Gravitational Theory (NGT) and my SCC are two examples.

However as a caveat:

2. Orbital data only yield geodesic characteristics in a metric theory.

3. Gyroscopic behaviour derived from the geodesics of orbiting bodies may not be the same as for a solid rotating body. Other factors may be influencing the result.

Therefore it is still essential for GPB to confirm these results in a controlled experiment. We all await 2006 with patience!

Garth
 

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