B Temperature of container, temperature of contents

[anon31337]

TL;DR Summary

tl;dr someone claims that the metal of a beer can can be colder than the beer itself when the ambient temperature of the room was warmer than the beer originally was. Can someone with a physics background back me up on this or am I completely wrong?

someone claims that the metal of a beer can can be colder than the beer itself when the ambient temperature of the room was warmer than the beer originally was. Can someone with a physics background back me up on this or am I completely wrong?

The beer came out of the fridge at fridge temperature. Is there a world where the beer can after 15 or so minutes can be colder than the beer within the can? Assume ambient temperature was around 71 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[PeroK]

TL;DR Summary: tl;dr someone claims that the metal of a beer can can be colder than the beer itself when the ambient temperature of the room was warmer than the beer originally was. Can someone with a physics background back me up on this or am I completely wrong?

someone claims that the metal of a beer can can be colder than the beer itself when the ambient temperature of the room was warmer than the beer originally was. Can someone with a physics background back me up on this or am I completely wrong?

The beer came out of the fridge at fridge temperature. Is there a world where the beer can after 15 or so minutes can be colder than the beer within the can? Assume ambient temperature was around 71 degrees Fahrenheit.

It depends what you mean by "colder". If you mean lower temperature, then the can cannot be colder than the beer. But, metal may feel colder to the touch, because it's a better conductor. Think of a cold metal rail, which feels colder than the surrounding air.

 

[Baluncore]

Welcome to PF.

In the first analysis, I would expect the can to be at a temperature between the beer and the environment. The can forms an isotherm. Heat will flow from the environment, to the metal can, then to the beer. The can must have an intermediate temperature.

If you open the can, then it is unlikely the beer will last 15 minutes before it reaches 37°C, 98°F, which would leave the can cooler than both the environment and the beer.

When you open the can, CO₂ comes out of solution, but does the beer temperature change as a result? I believe this is too close to call, so will require extensive experimentation, with double-blind trials and several independent controls. If you could provide me with a slab of 24 cans, I would be prepared to begin the investigation.

 

[hutchphd]

A slab of 24 cans. Nice. Had not run across that term before......
For a double-blind test you may need two cases

 

[Vanadium 50]

Drink two cases and you'll be double blind!

 

[DaveC426913]

Yeah, I think the key is perception of cold, which is a matter of heat transfer.

 

[Baluncore]

In Australia, the roads are long and straight, with few intersections. Dehydration can be an issue. The advantage of the 'slab' is that it packs flat, so is more stable on the passenger seat, or as a ready-reserve, on the floor below the passenger's knees. The passenger can then regulate the flow, or allow the driver to grope for a can, while he keeps his eyes safely on the road.

 

[hutchphd]

It is important to maintain hydration. Rapid assured access to fluids is a must.

Yep that's my story officer......

 

[jrmichler]

I believe this is too close to call, so will require extensive experimentation, with double-blind trials and several independent controls. If you could provide me with a slab of 24 cans, I would be prepared to begin the investigation.

A test with only one subject will never pass peer review. You need one slab per peer, and enough peers to be statistically significant.

TL;DR Summary: tl;dr someone claims that the metal of a beer can can be colder than the beer itself when the ambient temperature of the room was warmer than the beer originally was. Can someone with a physics background back me up on this or am I completely wrong?

Is there a world where the beer can after 15 or so minutes can be colder than the beer within the can?

The laws of thermodynamics require that the can be warmer than the beer and colder than the room. As others have said, the metal can feels colder than it is because the metal conducts heat very well.

 

[hutchphd]

There was a perplexing myth in Vietnam (at least according to author Niel Sheehan "John Paul Vann in Vietnam: A Bright and Shining Lie" ) that one could cool a sixpack in the jungle by burying it in sand, anointing the sand with gasoline and then igniting this votive mound. Seems unlikely. Luckilly I have no firsthand experience.

 

[Baluncore]

... that one could cool a six-pack in the jungle by burying it in sand, anointing the sand with gasoline and then igniting this votive mound.

The soil temperature, at depth, approaches the average of the daily cycle.
Simply burying a six-pack will cool it during the day.

During the heat of the day, as the flame heat rises, air is drawn from deeper in the open structured soil, that is cooler than the daytime surface. You do not see the fuel continue to burn for quite some time, below the soil surface, where it must be drawing air from below.

There are two confounding variables here; the heat of the fire changes your perspective of hot, while delaying the certain promise of satisfaction, increases the appreciation.

 

[Bystander]

The soil temperature, at depth, approaches the average of the daily cycle.
Simply burying a six-pack will cool it during the day.

During the heat of the day, as the flame heat rises, air is drawn from deeper in the open structured soil, that is cooler than the daytime surface. You do not see the fuel continue to burn for quite some time, below the soil surface, where it must be drawing air from below.

There are two confounding variables here; the heat of the fire changes your perspective of hot, while delaying the certain promise of satisfaction, increases the appreciation.

Don't forget the "Mpemba effect."

 

[hutchphd]

I suppose any amount of cooling is better than none in the Delta. Also the evaporative cooling provide by the gasoline, unaffected by the otherwise saturated water humidity of the amosphere would produce significant heat flow from the six pack. This may be less myth than I originally thought. Time for a science project indeed. You'll find me in the sandbox.......