Can an object ever fully reach ambient temperature in an isolated environment?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter thetexan
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Heat Heat transfer
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether an object can fully reach ambient temperature in an isolated environment, particularly focusing on the behavior of a cold drink warming up to room temperature. Participants explore concepts related to heat transfer, temperature fluctuations, and analogies to radioactive decay.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the temperature difference between a cold object and room temperature decreases exponentially over time, suggesting it never actually reaches zero.
  • Another participant introduces Zeno's paradox as a related concept, implying that the process of reaching room temperature may be infinitely divisible.
  • Some participants argue that while the idealized model suggests the temperature difference approaches zero, real-world fluctuations mean the object can reach room temperature within a finite time.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of Newton's law of cooling, particularly when the temperature difference is comparable to small fluctuations.
  • One participant draws an analogy to radioactive decay, stating that while all nuclei may eventually decay, there is never a point of absolute certainty that no undecayed nuclei remain.
  • Another participant emphasizes that in classical physics, one can theoretically assert that an object's temperature matches that of the environment, considering fluctuations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether an object can fully equalize to ambient temperature, with some suggesting it can under certain conditions while others maintain that it never fully reaches it due to theoretical constraints.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights assumptions about ideal conditions versus real-world scenarios, as well as the implications of temperature fluctuations on the concept of reaching ambient temperature.

thetexan
Messages
269
Reaction score
13
I left my unopened icy cold Coke out on my desk yesterday. When I came in today it had, of course, lost it's icy edge and had achieved room temperature.

Then I asked myself...will my drink ever actually achieve room temperature or will it always be slightly colder then room temperature?

Can something cold ever finally equalize to ambient temperature if there is nothing to keep it cold?

tex
 
Science news on Phys.org
The temperature difference between a cold object and the room temperature decreases exponentially with time (here we assume that the heat conduction in the drink is so fast that its temperature remains uniform during the warming up), so in principle it will never become zero. You can Google "Newton's law of heating/cooling" for more information. This is a bit similar to how radioactive decay happens with some half-life.
 
hilbert2 said:
The temperature difference between a cold object and the room temperature decreases exponentially with time (here we assume that the heat conduction in the drink is so fast that its temperature remains uniform during the warming up), so in principle it will never become zero.
That's a too idealistic picture. In reality, there are constant fluctuations in temperature (too small to measure, but they are still there), such that the object will reach room temperature within these fluctuations in a finite time.

Edit: In addition, Newton's law of cooling doesn't hold if the difference in temperature between two objects is of the order of these fluctuations.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbriggs444
DrClaude said:
That's a too idealistic picture. In reality, there are constant fluctuations in temperature (too small to measure, but they are still there), such that the object will reach room temperature within these fluctuations in a finite time.

Edit: In addition, Newton's law of cooling doesn't hold if the difference in temperature between two objects is of the order of these fluctuations.

I know that... Also, if one keeps observing radioactive decay of some sample, there will eventually be a time when every single nucleus has decayed, but if you put the sample in an isolated box (similar to what Schroedinger's cat is in) and start waiting without looking in the box, you will never reach a point when there is exactly zero probability for any undecayed nuclei to be left in there.
 
hilbert2 said:
I know that... Also, if one keeps observing radioactive decay of some sample, there will eventually be a time when every single nucleus has decayed, but if you put the sample in an isolated box (similar to what Schroedinger's cat is in) and start waiting without looking in the box, you will never reach a point when there is exactly zero probability for any undecayed nuclei to be left in there.
We're considering classical physics, not QM. There will be a point where, even theoretically ("in an isolated box"), we can say that the temperature of the object is the same as that of the room, provided we take into account fluctuations.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
10K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
20K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K