The closure of an open set A, strictly bigger than A itself?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of open sets and their closures in the context of topology. Participants explore whether the closure of an open set A, which is not closed, is strictly larger than A itself, and examine related concepts such as connectedness.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if A is an open set and not closed, then its closure Cl(A) must contain at least one point not in A.
  • Others argue that if the whole space is considered, it is closed, and thus Cl(A) cannot be larger than the whole space.
  • A participant notes that if Cl(A) is not strictly bigger than A, it must be exactly A, which contradicts the assumption that A is not closed.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of connectedness, stating that in a connected space, the closure of a non-empty proper open subset A will be strictly larger than A.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on whether the closure of an open set A is strictly larger than A, as participants present differing viewpoints and conditions regarding the nature of the space and the properties of the sets involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the axioms of topology and the definitions of open and closed sets, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the space and the specific properties of the sets being discussed.

adam512
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Hi there!

Is the following true?

Suppose A is an open set and not closed. Cl(A) is closed and contains A, hence it contains at least one point not in A.

If A is both open and closed it obviously does not hold.
 
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Stephen Tashi said:
In the axioms for a topology, we assume the whole space is an open set. Its closure wouldn't be larger.

But TS said
Suppose A is an open set and not closed.
and the whole space is closed (because it's the complement of the empty set).

As you've worded it, your statement is true. Suppose that cl(A) is not strictly bigger. By definition, it is not smaller either (it's the smallest closed set that contains A), so it must be exactly A.
 
CompuChip said:
But TS said

and the whole space is closed (because it's the complement of the empty set).

As you've worded it, your statement is true. Suppose that cl(A) is not strictly bigger. By definition, it is not smaller either (it's the smallest closed set that contains A), so it must be exactly A.

I agree. I realized the mistake and deleted my post, before yours appeared.
 
They just won't let you pretend you didn't make a mistake!

(They do that to me all the time!)
 
Luckily you hardly make any Halls :P

Sorry Stephen, sometimes I leave the tab open and reply a bit later without hitting refresh first.
 
adam512, there is an interesting concept related to your question, namely connectedness.

a space is connected if and only if the only sets that are both open and closed are the empty set and the whole space.

In other words, in a connected space, no "proper" open subset can be also closed.

Thus in a connected space, the closure of a non empty proper open subset A, will be strictly larger than A.
 

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