The Definition of Torque - a proof

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a proof for the definition of torque as presented in 'Introduction to Classical Mechanics' by David Morin. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the assumptions made in the proof and seeks clarification on the relationship between these assumptions and a note provided at the end of the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the concept of "effectivity" of a force and its dependence on both the force magnitude and distance from the axis. Questions arise regarding the correctness of mathematical expressions and the implications of scaling forces. The original poster and others discuss the relationship between the effectiveness of rotation and the assumptions made in the proof.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the mathematical reasoning behind the proof, while others are still seeking clarity on specific aspects of the equations presented. There is an acknowledgment of understanding from some participants, but uncertainty remains about the author's intent and the assumptions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the assumptions made in the proof and how they relate to the effectiveness of forces, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify complex mathematical relationships without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Shreya
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Homework Statement
Please refer the image below.
Relevant Equations
Newton's Laws
I have been trying to understand this proof from the book 'Introduction to classical mechanics' by David Morin. This proof comes up in the first chapter of statics and is a proof for the definition of torque.
I don't understand why the assumption taken in the beginning of the proof is reasonable. A note given at the end tries to give some clarification, but I can't relate these 2 points.
Please be kind to help. :)
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How about this:
The "effectivity" of a force of magnitude F applied in a specified direction at x from the axis is ##g(F,x)##. Applying some multiple of F, ##\lambda F##, in the same direction and at the same point should have effectivity ##\lambda g(F,x)##, i.e. ##\lambda g(F,x)=g(\lambda F,x)##. Hence ##\frac{\partial g(F,x)}{\partial F}=\frac{\partial g(\lambda F, x)}{\partial F}##. Since every force in the specified direction can be represented by a suitable choice of ##\lambda##, this implies ##\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}## is a function of x only. Integrating, ##g=F f(x)+c## for some function ##f##.
Adding that a zero force should have zero effect leads to the result.
 
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Sorry, but I don't quite understand the partial differential equation, @haruspex . Should'nt there be a ##\lambda## on the left.
 
Last edited:
Shreya said:
Sorry, but I don't quite understand the partial differential equation, @haruspex . Should'nt there be a ##\lambda## on the left.
Sorry, I didn't write the algebra correctly.
##\lambda g(F,x)=g(\lambda F,x)##. Hence ##\lambda\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}\vert_{F,x}=\lambda\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}\vert_{\lambda F, x}##.
Cancelling,
##\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}\vert_{F,x}=\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}\vert_{\lambda F, x}##.
Since every force in the specified direction can be represented by a suitable choice of ##\lambda##, this implies ##\frac{\partial g}{\partial F}## is a function of x only. Integrating, ##g=F f(x)+c## for some function ##f##.
 
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Yes sir, I understood it now. Just to check if I got it properly, I'll try to summarise here. The 'effectiveness of rotation' of a force, taken as ##g(F,x)## is a function of the force F and the distance from the origin x. If the force be scaled by ##\lambda##, the effectiveness ##g(F,x)## must also be scaled by that factor. This implies that the change in effectiveness per change in F just depends on x (and not on the particular value of F). Therefore, effectiveness itself is a linearly dependent on f and some function of x. I might have lost some rigorousness here due to departure from mathematical notation, but I hope I have understood the idea properly.

I also wanted to correlate the assumption with the note 1 given at the end. From your explanation, ##\lambda g (F,x) = g (\lambda F, x)## means the same as the note, right?
 
Last edited:
Shreya said:
I hope I have understood the idea properly.
Yes, you get the idea.
Shreya said:
From your explanation, ##\lambda g (F,x) = g (\lambda F, x)## means the same as the note, right?
My explanation is an attempt to use the hint to arrive at the answer. Whether that's what the author had in mind I cannot be sure.
 
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Thank you so much @haruspex for helping me out again. I had tried many resources to understand this question and all that had failed. You are doing a great help to all students in the world
 

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