The dot or cross product of two operators acting on a state

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of two operators acting on a combined state of subsystems, specifically focusing on the dot and cross products of these operators. The context includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics, particularly the use of Kronecker products and tensor products of states and operators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a system composed of an atom and a photon, represented by states |\phi\rangle and |n\rangle, and introduces the Kronecker product to describe the combined state |\Psi\rangle=|\phi, n\rangle=|\phi\rangle\otimes|n\rangle.
  • The same participant expresses uncertainty about the operations \hat{\mathbf{A}}\cdot \hat{\mathbf{N}} and \hat{\mathbf{A}}\times \hat{\mathbf{N}} when applied to the combined state |\phi, n\rangle, particularly in relation to the involvement of the tensor product.
  • Another participant suggests the need for the tensor product of operators, referencing a section on "Tensor product of linear maps." However, this suggestion does not clarify the original participant's question.
  • A subsequent reply questions whether the reference to the tensor product pertains to a specific section of a book, indicating a potential misunderstanding or need for further clarification.
  • A later post confirms the reference to a Wikipedia article on tensor products, but does not provide additional insights into the original query regarding the operations on the combined state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to approach the operations involving the operators \hat{\mathbf{A}} and \hat{\mathbf{N}} acting on the combined state. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple viewpoints on the necessity of tensor products.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of clarity regarding the specific mathematical treatment of the operators and their interactions with the combined state, as well as the implications of using tensor products versus other operations.

Robert_G
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If a system is made up by two subsystems, for example, the atom and the photon. and let's assume the state of the atoms is described by [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex], while the state of the photons can be described by [itex]|n\rangle[/itex], The Kronecker product of the [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex] and [itex]|n\rangle[/itex] can be used to describe the whole system. and that would be:

[itex]|\Psi\rangle=|\phi, n\rangle=|\phi\rangle\otimes|n\rangle[/itex]

I always treat the [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex] and [itex]|n\rangle[/itex] as vectors, so the operation of [itex]\otimes[/itex] means the elements of the first vector (here [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex]) times the "whole" following vector which is [itex]|n\rangle[/itex] here; that will gives us a vector which is [itex]|\phi, n\rangle[/itex]. so if the numbers of the elements of [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex] and [itex]|n\rangle[/itex] is [itex]m[/itex] and [itex]n[/itex] respectively, the vector [itex]|\phi, n\rangle[/itex] has [itex]m\times n[/itex] elements.

now for example, we have two operators, [itex]\hat{\mathbf{A}}[/itex] and [itex]\hat{\mathbf{N}}[/itex], and they satisfy the following equations:
[itex]\hat{\mathbf{A}}|\phi\rangle=\mathbf{a}|\phi'\rangle[/itex]
[itex]\hat{\mathbf{N}}|n\rangle=\mathbf{n}|n'\rangle[/itex].

Of course, [itex]\hat{\mathbf{A}}[/itex] can only act on the atomic states, and [itex]\hat{\mathbf{N}}[/itex] can only act on the photons states.

Now, my question, what is [itex]\hat{\mathbf{A}}\cdot \hat{\mathbf{N}}|\phi, n\rangle[/itex], and what is [itex]\hat{\mathbf{A}}\times \hat{\mathbf{N}}|\phi, n\rangle[/itex]? The idea just not clear to me, if the operation [itex]\otimes[/itex] is involved.
if [itex]\hat{U}=\hat{\mathbf{A}}\cdot \hat{\mathbf{N}}[/itex], for example, how to write [itex]\langle \phi, n|\;|U|^2\; |\phi', n'\rangle[/itex] on the base of [itex]|\phi\rangle[/itex] and [itex]|n\rangle[/itex]?
 
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You need the tensor product of operators. (See the section "Tensor product of linear maps".)
 
strangerep said:
You need the tensor product of operators. (See the section "Tensor product of linear maps".)

are you talking about a section of a book?
 

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