The equation of state of radiation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation of state (EOS) of radiation, specifically in the context of a photon gas surrounding a black hole. Participants explore the derivation of the EOS, its implications for pressure, and the energy-momentum tensor associated with radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the EOS of radiation is set to 1/3 and seeks clarification on its origin.
  • Another participant provides a heuristic argument involving pressure, momentum, and energy density to explain the factor of 1/3 in the EOS for a photon gas.
  • A participant inquires whether the pressure of the photon gas surrounding a black hole remains isotropic, referencing the energy tensor's structure.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty regarding the isotropy of pressure in this context.
  • A request is made for references to textbooks that detail the derivation of the energy-momentum tensor for radiation.
  • Another participant notes that the form of the energy-momentum tensor is applicable to any perfect fluid and suggests that general relativity textbooks typically cover this topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of certainty regarding the isotropy of pressure in the photon gas surrounding a black hole, indicating that there is no consensus on this aspect. Additionally, while some participants provide derivations and references, others seek clarification and further information.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the isotropy of pressure in the context of a black hole and the specific conditions under which the EOS applies. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the relevant mathematical derivations and concepts.

micomaco86572
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the EOS of radiation (photon gas surrounding a black hole)

Why does the EOS of radiation set to 1/3? Where does this come from?
 
Last edited:
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Heuristic argument:

P = N * F/A
P = N * dp_x/dt / A
P = N * dp_x / (L / v_x) / A

And v^2 = v_x^2 + v_y^2 + v_z^2 = 3v_x^2 -> v = sqrt(3) v_x
We can make a similar argument for the components of momentum to get an overall factor of 3.

P = N/V * <pv> / 3

Then for a photon gas <pv> is the energy, so we have

P = Energy per particle * Number / Volume / 3 = energy density / 3

Another way I have seen it derived, is to take the EM Stress tensor, show that it must be traceless, and compare that with the general identity (for a perfect fluid)
T^{\mu}_{\mu} = -\rho + 3p
 
If there is a layer of photon gas surrounding a black hole‘s surface, will the pressure of this gas still be isotropic? In other words, the energy tensor is still
\begin{display}<br /> T^{\mu}_{\nu}=\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cccc}<br /> \rho &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; -p &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -p &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -p \\<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)<br /> \end{display}
, isn't it? Or the g11 is not equal to g22,g33 any more?
 
Last edited:
I would think so, but I'm not terribly certain.
 
Does somebody know that which book gives the detail derivation of this formula—the energy-momentum tensor of radiation, namely
<br /> \begin{display}<br /> T^{\mu}_{\nu}=\left(<br /> \begin{array}{cccc}<br /> \rho &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; -p &amp; 0 &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -p &amp; 0 \\<br /> 0 &amp; 0 &amp; 0 &amp; -p \\<br /> \end{array}<br /> \right)<br /> \end{display}<br />
?
 
That is actually the form for any perfect fluid (i.e. one in which we can neglect viscosity and voritcity). Any GR textbook will have some amount of explanation about the derivation of this. I find 'Gravitation' by Hartle an excellent introductory textbook, but others will have this info also.
 

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