The idea about Pythagoras stairs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Pythagoras stairs sequence, which is generated by a recursion formula similar to the Fibonacci sequence. Participants explore the properties of this sequence, particularly focusing on proving a relationship involving the squares of its terms through mathematical induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant introduces the Pythagoras stairs sequence and presents its recursion formula, suggesting a proof by induction for the relationship \(Y^2 = 2X^2 \pm 1\).
  • Another participant expresses concern about sharing a Word file due to security issues, indicating a preference for web-based formats.
  • A later reply outlines a method for proving the relationship using mathematical induction, detailing the steps involved in the process.
  • Some participants challenge the correctness of the initial question, claiming there are mistakes present and suggesting alternative formulas that should be used.
  • Multiple participants agree that there are errors in the original formulation of the problem, indicating a lack of consensus on the initial question's validity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the correctness of the original question, with multiple participants identifying mistakes and suggesting alternative approaches. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the initial claims and the proposed proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted potential errors in the original problem statement and the need for clarification on the formulas used. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the correct application of mathematical induction in this context.

memomath
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Hello everybody

I have looked everywhere for some good guides, so the question is:


You probably know the Fibonacci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8…) but there is a lesser-known sequence called (Pythagoras stairs) generated by a similar recursion formula.

This is a sequence of pairs (Xn,Yn) usually arranged as follows:
1 2
2 3
5 7
12 17

And so on……. It begins with (x1,y1)=(1,1) and the recursion formula is

X{n+1} = X{n} + Y{n}
Y{n+1} = X{n}+ X{n+1}

Prove by induction that always

Y^2 = 2 X^2 ± 1

Pythagoras used this equation to generate rational approximations to (2)^1/2


Thanks in advance for usefully discuss to solve for this interesting question
 
Last edited:
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Hi again

Hello everybody

I have looked everywhere for some good guides, so the question is:

You probably know the Fibonacci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8…) but there is a lesser-known sequence called (Pythagoras stairs) generated by a similar recursion formula.

This is a sequence of pairs (Xn,Yn) usually arranged as follows:
1 2
2 3
5 7
12 17

And so on……. It begins with (x1,y1)=(1,1) and the recursion formula is

X\underline{n+1}=X\underline{n}+Y\underline{n}

Y\underline{n+1}= X\underline{n}+X\underline{n+1}


Prove by induction that always

Y\acute{2}=2X\acute{2} \pm1

Pythagoras used this equation to generate rational approximations to \sqrt{2}


Moreover, if you would like please open the enclosed to find the corrections/clarifications of the question.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
No comments or solution until now!

memomath said:
hi

please open the enclosed to find the corrections/clarifications of the question.

Thanks
 
A lot of people will not open a Word file because they are notorious for carrying viruses.
 
Dear HallsofIvy

Thanks for your reply, in fact I already wrote the problem in webpage and at the same time wrote in the word file so there two options


HallsofIvy said:
A lot of people will not open a Word file because they are notorious for carrying viruses.
 
Hi again

Hello everybody

I have looked everywhere for some good guides, so the question is:

You probably know the Fibonacci sequence (1,1,2,3,5,8…) but there is a lesser-known sequence called (Pythagoras stairs) generated by a similar recursion formula.

This is a sequence of pairs (Xn,Yn) usually arranged as follows:
1 2
2 3
5 7
12 17

And so on……. It begins with (x1,y1)=(1,1) and the recursion formula is

X\underline{n+1}=X\underline{n}+Y\underline{n}

Y\underline{n+1}= X\underline{n}+X\underline{n+1}


Prove by induction that always

Y\acute{2}=2X\acute{2} \pm1

Pythagoras used this equation to generate rational approximations to \sqrt{2}


Moreover, if you would like please open the enclosed to find the question as pdf form.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Okay here is how you do it...The method of mathematical induction for proofs follows the induction theorem which requires that for any relation dependent on variable N ,then if N=1,N=2 are TRUE and assuming N= k is TRUE then N=k+1 should also be TRUE...So if you test the Pythagoras' stairs for N=1 and N=2 then you find that it is TRUE...then assume that N=k is true such that y^2(k+1)=2x^2(k+1)+- 1...so using the above you should be able to prove that y^2(k+2)=2x^2(k+2)+-1...you can do this by taking the left hand side..You should be knowing that y(k+2)=2x(k+1)+y(k+1)..square this to have y^2(k+2) =4x^2(k+1)+4x(k+1)y(k+1)+y^2(k+1)...but from previously assuming N=k is true we had y^2(k+1)=2x^2(k+1)+-1..substitute in the previous equation...also keep in mind x(k+2)=x(k+1)+y(k+1)...use this [square it] in the above equations to get the right hand side of y^2(k+2)=2x^2(k+2)+-1 then you have proven using the induction theorem.
 
Last edited:
some wrongs here in the question

YES I AGREE WITH YOU there are mistake in the question
 
Last edited by a moderator:


The above answer is not correct and there are some mistakes in the question, its easy to find the mistakes in the question.

However the hint for the right question should use these formulae

Y(n + 1) X(n + 1) = (2X(n+1) + Y(n+3) (X(n+4) + Y(n+5))

memomath said:
YES I AGREE WITH YOU there are mistake in the question
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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