The Natural Dispersion of Black Holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature and behavior of black holes, particularly focusing on their growth, the processes involved during their formation, and the implications of their immense gravitational fields. Participants explore theoretical aspects of black hole dynamics, including their interaction with surrounding matter and the potential for internal processes within black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that black holes continuously grow by consuming surrounding matter, but the process is complicated by the need for matter to lose angular momentum to fall in.
  • Others argue that while black holes can grow significantly, they do not consume entire galaxies quickly due to their vast size and the dynamics of orbital motion.
  • A participant questions whether black holes can grow to a point of falling apart, suggesting that a supernova collapse could lead to conditions where atoms are crushed and energy is released, potentially affecting the black hole's stability.
  • Another participant counters that black holes do not fall apart due to size but can evaporate over time through Hawking radiation.
  • There is speculation about the internal conditions of black holes, with one participant suggesting that the violent collapse could lead to a state of absolute zero, while another emphasizes the uncertainty of what occurs inside black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the growth and stability of black holes, with no consensus reached on whether they can fall apart or what occurs inside them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the internal dynamics of black holes and their interaction with matter.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the speculative nature of internal processes within black holes and the dependence on definitions of terms like "fall apart" and "absolute zero." The discussion also highlights the complexity of black hole interactions with surrounding matter.

mncmbabcock
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Black holes are believed to be scattered throughout the universe. These ultra-dense bodies have a gravity field so dense that nothing, not even light can escape. If these bodies are able to consume everything that enters its event horizon than over the billions of years that the universe has been in existence there should be several hundred black holes that have grown so large that vast regions of the universe should look like black voids on Hubble telescope images. Since everything in the universe is moving black holes should be continuously growing. Growing to a point where entire galaxies are quickly consumed and eventually the entire universe.

My question is, do black holes grow to a point that they actually fall apart.

When a super giant collapses could that the collapse is so violent that all atoms are actually crushed to where there is on electron movement? If so, I believe that it would release all the energy that keeps electrons in their orbits and therefore leave the black hole at a temperature of absolute zero. As stellar material is consumed the energy of that material impacting the surface transfers that energy. Not having been at the original violent collapse, the newly arriving material isn’t crushed (at the atomic level) and continues to transfer small amounts of energy to the core. A black hole continues to grow until it reaches a point where the material that it has consumed has transferred enough energy to allow the atoms within the core body to actually rise above absolute zero and that is when the body begins to fall apart. While the gravity is still immense but when the atoms receive enough energy to start moving again even the gravity can’t keep the electrons pressed against the nucleus. As these atoms regain their energy level it allows for more energy to be transferred to the rest of the core until it is a very dense cloud of atoms that will eventually form a cloud that begins to form new stars. (the stellar cycle of life)
 
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A partial answer to your questions. At the center of galaxies there are black holes with masses of several million suns or even billions. However, they don't take up a lot of volume, since the Schwarzschild radius is proportional to the mass.
The following from Wikipedia gives the mass and size ranges.
Supermassive black hole ~105–109 MSun ~0.001–10 AU
 
mncmbabcock said:
... Since everything in the universe is moving black holes should be continuously growing. Growing to a point where entire galaxies are quickly consumed and eventually the entire universe.

Black holes are continuously growing, but entire galaxies are not quickly consumed because they are so large. Matter must come near enough to a black hole AND loose enough angular momentum (through collisions) to fall in. Galaxies are so huge that most of the matter never gets anywhere near the massive black hole at its center, and even if they did, most objects have enough momentum to orbit around the black hole instead of falling right in. It's the same reason all the planets in our solar system are still orbiting and did not fall into the sun years ago.

mncmbabcock said:
My question is, do black holes grow to a point that they actually fall apart.

They don't fall apart because they get too big, if that is what you are thinking (like how certain atomic isotopes are so big that they fall apart quickly). They can evaporate over time though due to Hawking radiation.
 
mncmbabcock said:
When a super giant collapses could that the collapse is so violent that all atoms are actually crushed to where there is on electron movement? If so, I believe that it would release all the energy that keeps electrons in their orbits and therefore leave the black hole at a temperature of absolute zero. As stellar material is consumed the energy of that material impacting the surface transfers that energy. Not having been at the original violent collapse, the newly arriving material isn’t crushed (at the atomic level) and continues to transfer small amounts of energy to the core. A black hole continues to grow until it reaches a point where the material that it has consumed has transferred enough energy to allow the atoms within the core body to actually rise above absolute zero and that is when the body begins to fall apart. While the gravity is still immense but when the atoms receive enough energy to start moving again even the gravity can’t keep the electrons pressed against the nucleus. As these atoms regain their energy level it allows for more energy to be transferred to the rest of the core until it is a very dense cloud of atoms that will eventually form a cloud that begins to form new stars. (the stellar cycle of life)

It sounds like you are thinking of blacks holes as curtains, behind which physics goes on as normal (atoms interact, etc.). We don't really know what goes on inside black holes (that's kind of the point of them being black), but the physics at the edge of a black hole would suggest that whatever is going on inside is far from normal. I doubt there are regular atoms surviving bouncing around in black holes.
 

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