The Origin of Gods: A Scientific Perspective

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the origins and implications of the concept of "God," exploring its historical emergence, relevance in contemporary society, and its relationship with human rights and social development. Participants engage in a philosophical inquiry into whether the concept serves any purpose in understanding the material world or if it hinders progress.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the concept of "God" is a human invention that originated from primitive man's lack of scientific understanding.
  • Others suggest that the elimination of the concept of "God" could lead to a clearer vision of the material world and promote human rights.
  • One participant cites Edgar Allan Poe to emphasize that religion evolves from human emotions and societal factors rather than divine purpose.
  • There is a contention regarding the rights of humans, with some asserting that human rights should include access to healthcare, education, and housing, while others view these as benefits rather than inherent rights.
  • Participants discuss the role of belief systems in society, questioning whether any belief, including atheism, can lead to fanaticism or harm.
  • Concerns are raised about the capitalist system and its impact on social equality, with calls for development criteria that prioritize social equity over profit.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the possibility of achieving a perfect society, suggesting that wrongdoing will always exist.
  • A later reply questions the method proposed for eliminating the concept of "God," highlighting the potential for creating a new hierarchy of power.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the necessity and implications of the concept of "God," with no consensus reached. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the role of belief in shaping societal values and rights.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining human rights and the influence of economic systems on social development. There are unresolved assumptions about the relationship between belief systems and societal structures.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may interest those exploring the intersections of philosophy, religion, human rights, and socio-economic systems.

  • #31
(US natural sciences education is by US own estimate on 15-25 place among other nations, behind eastern and western Europe and behind some asian countries).

I've heard this particular statistic critiqued by the fact that it's easier for less intelligent people to get an education in USA than other countries, so the sampling is somewhat biased.
 
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  • #32
Therein lies the problem, I'd say!

I understand one wanting everyone to be able to get an education, it's the democratic thing. But, I think then the idea of what an "education" is, should be looked at.

Many other countries move with much faster speed. I know at the high school I went to, the highest math was geoemetry, and there was no physics. just bio and chem but very basic.

This is one of the many reasons I'm so interested in JAPAN. I am attracted to many things about japan, but one is how accelerated their education system is.

This is also why I will be homeschooling my children for a while, perhaps all the way to high school. Then they'll go to a private school that's accelerated.
 
  • #33
It's interesting to see all the ways that envy manifests itself.

And to claim that Russia is somehow worthy of some title is just hilarious and obvious bias.

I also thinks it's interesting that some here are arguing that an education is only for the elite of intelligence. These people who are against the US tendency to allow more people access to an education are the same people that gripe about capitalism widening the gap between classes of people. Lol. Can the US do anything right? LOL. Laughable.

I won't pretend to explain why the US is so far ahead of everyone else in so many areas (this cannot be denied with any credibility). I certainly won't be so bold to say it is because of religion. But if the education systems of other countries produces people like what is exhibited here, then it is easy to see why there is such a gap. Sure, memorizing facts and mathematical formulas will do wonders for your grades. But being human and leading a successful life/society is so much more than that. The careless use of statiscal data to make such bold statements in these anti-god/USA threads is growing old.
 
  • #34
Originally posted by Hurkyl
I've heard this particular statistic critiqued by the fact that it's easier for less intelligent people to get an education in USA than other countries, so the sampling is somewhat biased.

No, it is statistics from tests. How come americans don't even know the quality of their own education: http://mwhodges.home.att.net/new_96_report.htm
 
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  • #35
Originally posted by Alexander
No, it is statistics from tests. How come americans don't even know the quality of their own education: http://mwhodges.home.att.net/new_96_report.htm

What he's saying Alexander is that the statistic is mis-leading. The source he is referencing claims that a greater percentage of people are accessing an education in the US. In order for a statistical comparison to be valid, you have to compare Apples to Apples in the sample selection. Pick up the old book "How to Lie with Statistics". That book documents many of the tactics that are used here. Learn what not to do.
 
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  • #36
Look up the link (grandfather test report): http://mwhodges.home.att.net/new_96_report.htm

It is Apple to Apple comparison. Read it. US education is somewhere on 20 place among other nations.
 
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  • #37


Originally posted by heusdens
The qeustion as the where "God" comes from, is adressing the issue of how the concepts of Gods came into existence.
A "God" outside of our mindly concepts, "God as a reality" can not be assumed, our profound and well tested explorations of the material world, do no show any indication of the existence of such entities, neither any need to relend on the existence of Gods, to explain anything in the material world.

The concept of "God" was a human invention, which originated in the minds of primitive man, which was not equipped with the means for scientific and structured inquiry of the material world.

The current world, does not need a concept of "God". In effect, we should strive to radically eliminate all concepts of "God", as they serve no purpose, and only confuse our vision on the material world.

It does not serve the rights of us humans, to have a concept of "God", it only serves the rights of those, that want to eliminate the rights of millions and billions of people, that seek a better future, in which they have normal human rights.

We need to look upon the world, as it is, and can from that scientific outlook on the world, to a possible world, that contains fundamental human rights for every world citizin.
And not just those that have the economic and militrary power, to suppores other nations and populations.


AMEN, MY FRIEND!
 
  • #38
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Then what do you say we take a vote on it? And yes. Something so fundamental as freedom of religion.

What is fundamental about freedom of religion, and what is the freedom involved?

I can for sure think about more fundamental rights we as humans can have. And why is to believe in something for which there is no proof a right, and what has it got to do with freedom?
 
  • #39
Originally posted by heusdens
What is fundamental about freedom of religion, and what is the freedom involved?

I can for sure think about more fundamental rights we as humans can have. And why is to believe in something for which there is no proof a right, and what has it got to do with freedom?
At the very least it gives us the freedom to make up our own minds about God, which thus entails the "freedom of belief." And if it wasn't for that we wouldn't be here discussing it, because we would all be under the domain of the Roman Catholic Church, and there would be no accountability for Atheism whatsover ... Although, dare I say it? there is very little about the Roman Catholic Church which is "truly religious" either.
 
  • #40
Originally posted by Iacchus32
At the very least it gives us the freedom to make up our own minds about God, which thus entails the "freedom of belief." And if it wasn't for that we wouldn't be here discussing it, because we would all be under the domain of the Roman Catholic Church, and there would be no accountability for Atheism whatsover ... Although, dare I say it? there is very little about the Roman Catholic Church which is "truly religious" either.

The only "religious freedom" I know of is the freedom to be free of religious ideas.
 
  • #41
Originally posted by heusdens
The only "religious freedom" I know of is the freedom to be free of religious ideas.
This is freedom of belief, which also entails freedom of religion, as well as freedom of "non-belief" (of religion).
 
  • #42
Originally posted by Iacchus32
This is freedom of belief, which also entails freedom of religion, as well as freedom of "non-belief" (of religion).

Ever read about christianity (and other religions) and how it conquered the world throughout history?
The adaption to that belief, I can tell you, was not just based on voluntarity.

That's why I think we should be set "free" of such religious "freedom".

What any person wants to believe in personal life, is not my business or that of the state, but religion should stay out of daily life (not institutionalized, not tought at schools).
 
  • #43
Originally posted by heusdens
Ever read about christianity (and other religions) and how it conquered the world throughout history?
The adaption to that belief, I can tell you, was not just based on voluntarity.
And yet the idea of freedom of religion was adopted speicifically to the United States.


That's why I think we should be set "free" of such religious "freedom".
Freedom of religion also means freedom "from" religion, as Royce so aptly put it in the other thread, https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2636".


What any person wants to believe in personal life, is not my business or that of the state, but religion should stay out of daily life (not institutionalized, not tought at schools).
So what makes it any different than that already? Except perhaps for the tele-evangelical crap you see on TV. Hey, if you want to cast out those devils it would be fine with me.
 
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  • #44
Originally posted by Iacchus32
And yet the idea of freedom of religion was adopted speicifically to the United States.

No wonder that the US is a fundamentalistic state.
 
  • #45
Originally posted by heusdens
No wonder that the US is a fundamentalistic state.
There are no doubt elements to this, but I think it's more regional. So, if you don't like the way people behave in a certain part of the country you can always move ... a luxury rarely affordable in other parts of the world.
 

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