Thermodynamics: Freezing Point Depression

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of freezing point depression in solutions, specifically focusing on the behavior of ethylene glycol and water mixtures when subjected to low temperatures. Participants explore the implications of solute concentration on the freezing point and the amount of ice that separates out when the solution is chilled.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the molality of ethylene glycol in water and attempts to determine the amount of ice that separates out when the solution is chilled to -25°C.
  • Another participant argues that as water freezes, only water is removed from the liquid phase, leading to an increase in the concentration of glycol in the solution.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding whether the mass of ice will change, suggesting a need for clarification on the relationship between solute concentration and freezing point.
  • A simpler example involving xylitol is introduced to further explore the same question about ice separation.
  • One participant reiterates that the amount of solute remains constant while the amount of solvent decreases as water freezes, affecting the overall concentration.
  • Another participant questions the assertion about solute concentration, suggesting that it continues to decrease the freezing point, leading to a potential misunderstanding of the freezing process.
  • A clarification is made regarding the point at which solute concentration becomes high enough to prevent further freezing of the remaining solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between solute concentration and the freezing point of the solution. There is no consensus on how much ice will separate out or the implications of solute concentration on freezing behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants' claims depend on assumptions about the behavior of solutions at low temperatures and the definitions of molality and freezing point depression. The discussion does not resolve these assumptions or the mathematical implications of the freezing process.

theow
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Homework Statement



200 g of ethylene glycol (HOCH2CH2OH) is dissolved in 1.00 L of water at 25°C.
The cryoscopic constant of water is 1.86 °C molal-1.
If the solution is chilled to -25°C, how much ice (in g) will be separated out?

Homework Equations



ΔT=Kfm, where Kf is and cryoscopic constant and m is the molality of nonvolatile impurity

The Attempt at a Solution



Calculated molality = (200/40)/1.00 = 5 molal
Freezing point = -5×1.86 = -9.3°C

But I suppose since the temperature is way lower than the freezing point, all 1000 g of ice would be frozen out?

Thanks a lot:)
 
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No, when the water freezes it is only water that is removed from the liquid phase, so concentration of glycol in solution goes up.
 
Thanks for your reply, Borek.
But how about the mass of ice? It won't change, will it?
 
Maybe I'll put it this way. Here's a simpler version:

20.0 g xylitol (C5H12O5) is dissolved in 1.00 L of water at 25°C. The cryoscopic constant for water in 1.86 °C molal-1
If the solution is chilled to -25°C, how much ice (in g) will separate out?​

I hope it's clear to you. Please help:)
 
I already told you what is happening. Water freezes till concentration of solute grows to the point when rest of the solution is high enough to prevent freezing. Amount of solute doesn't change, amount of solvent does.
 
hmm... as solute concentration increases, freezing point will continue to decrease. So why would you say
concentration of solute grows to the point when rest of the solution is high enough to prevent freezing
?
 
Sorry, it should read

concentration of solute grows to the point when it is high enough to prevent freezing of the rest of the solution

or something like that.
 

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