Thinner beer bottle has lower heat loss?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the heat loss characteristics of beer bottles, specifically comparing the heat retention of thinner, longer bottles versus shorter, stubby bottles. Participants explore the implications of bottle shape on heat transfer, considering factors such as surface area, contact with hands, and environmental conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the longer neck of the bottle may keep beer colder longer, despite its higher surface area, potentially due to reduced heat transfer when held by the neck.
  • Others argue that the contact surface area of the hand does not significantly differ between bottle shapes, questioning the validity of the claim that holding the neck reduces heat transfer.
  • One participant proposes that the insulating properties of the glass may play a more significant role than the shape of the bottle itself.
  • Another point raised is the effect of the bottle's contact with the table versus the air, suggesting that the heat sink may vary depending on the surface area in contact with different materials.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the actual heat transfer dynamics in real-life scenarios, considering factors like how people typically hold the bottles and the implications of surface area on heat loss.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the impact of bottle shape on heat retention and the factors influencing heat transfer.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions about the specific conditions under which heat transfer occurs, such as the role of air versus contact surfaces, and the impact of bottle design on practical usage scenarios.

swampwiz
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I was reading an article about how Heineken has replaced its short stubby bottles with the standard American longnecks, with reason:

In 2013 the company replaced its old stubby bottles with a fashionably long-necked version that supposedly keeps the beer cold longer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-click-fraud/?cmpid=BBD092415_BIZ​

This seems counterintuitive to me as a longer bottle has a higher surface area, although I suppose that it isn't much, and perhaps a proper CFD analysis could show this. Methinks that Heineken figured out it could source the longneck bottles cheaper and some marketeer just decided to make this reason up.
 
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Could be. An experiment would be the quickest way to tell.
 
If you hold the bottle by the neck than there will be less heat transfer to you hands.

BoB
 
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I didn't consider that the analysis presumed someone holding the bottle. I guess when I drink, I leave it on a table between gulps.
 
rbelli1 said:
If you hold the bottle by the neck than there will be less heat transfer to you hands.
How so?
The contact surface is going to be based on your hand, not on the bottle shape (since you need to ensure a good grip).
Seems to me, there won't be any appreciable difference.

In fact, I think I can pretty trivially demonstrate that the surface contact on a narrow cylinder is pretty close to the surface contact on a fat cylinder.

I'm with the OP. They made it up.
 
Now this is science we can all get behind.

Also, heat wouldn't transfer to your hands, it would transfer from your hands. I would think it would have way more to do with the chemistry of the glass and it's insulating properties than it's shape.
 
newjerseyrunner said:
I would think it would have way more to do with the chemistry of the glass and it's insulating properties than it's shape.
Well, sure, but there's no reason to think those things are different between the two designs.

The reason shape should make a difference is because of surface area between hot and cold areas. More surface area with higher heat flux equals faster transfer.

It's just that they've got counter-intuitive results.
For a given volume, a long narrow cylinder has more surface area than a stubby cylinder, and thus the thinner bottle should warm up faster. Yet they claim the thinner bottle warms up slower.
 
I have a question, when a beer warms up, what's the actual heat sink? The air or the table it's on? Hot vs cold in regards to surface area shouldn't matter as much as the surface area of poor vs good insulators. Making a taller thinner bottle increases the surface area touching air, but reduces the amount of surface touching the table. If actually holding it, people tend to hold those fat short bottles by the bottle, exposing your hand, which is also a better conductor than air, where when I hold the taller bottles, I tend to hold onto the neck to prevent my hand from getting cold.

Floating in space, I agree the higher surface area would cause faster entropy. Sitting on a table or in somebody's hand, I'd expect the opposite results.

EDIT: I might be wrong about the sitting on the table part, bottles don't have flat bottoms, they only have a small ring that actually touches the surface so I don't know.
 
newjerseyrunner said:
I have a question, when a beer warms up, what's the actual heat sink? The air or the table it's on? Hot vs cold in regards to surface area shouldn't matter as much as the surface area of poor vs good insulators. Making a taller thinner bottle increases the surface area touching air, but reduces the amount of surface touching the table. If actually holding it, people tend to hold those fat short bottles by the bottle, exposing your hand, which is also a better conductor than air, where when I hold the taller bottles, I tend to hold onto the neck to prevent my hand from getting cold.

Floating in space, I agree the higher surface area would cause faster entropy. Sitting on a table or in somebody's hand, I'd expect the opposite results.

EDIT: I might be wrong about the sitting on the table part, bottles don't have flat bottoms, they only have a small ring that actually touches the surface so I don't know.

I feel like this is the correct answer...

In a perfect space,where air is the only means of heat transfer,the shorter bottle,with less surface area,would be the winner.

But in a real life scenario, with real life variables,the longer bottle MIGHT stay cooler long enough to finish the beverage,considering that most people grip the neck,thus,lowering the amount of contact time with the liquid itself.

Of course I could just be blowing hot air (slight pun intended). So anybody want to correct me,as this is just a theory...haha
 
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ProjectTruth said:
But in a real life scenario, with real life variables,the longer bottle MIGHT stay cooler long enough to finish the beverage,considering that most people grip the neck,thus,lowering the amount of contact time with the liquid itself.
I see some logic in that.