Thirty One Year Old Tempted to Return to University

[DrummingAtom]

...
Now, what exactly is the point of getting a physics degree if you are forced to take engineering, electronics, or programming courses? If you are studying physics for the personal fulfillment of it and because you are interested in it, shouldn't you take the classes you are INTERESTED IN even if it is relativity and string theory? If you have to take CS classes to get a job and not starve to death, why not get a CS or engineering degree? ...

Why come to a forum for physics to discourage others from doing physics? After browsing through your previous posts you've asked for quite a lot of career advice within physics, but at the same time discourage others from doing physics. It sounds like your motive is to get others out while you can get in for yourself...

The point here is that you can study whatever you want just as long as you have a backup plan with some marketable skills. If you read ZapperZ's "So you want to be a physicist?" you'll see the exact points that SophusLies have made are made in that article.

To quote ZapperZ's article - "If you have followed the series so far, you would have noticed that very early on, I emphasized one very important thing: the acquiring of a range of skills during your undergraduate years. "

This advice is coming from an actual physicist.

 

[Diracula]

Yes, me telling someone to be wary of job prospects if they only do a BS in physics is a giant conspiracy perpetrated by me to cleverly get everyone else out of the field so I can have all the jobs.

It tickles me that you have read the thread and have actually come to this conclusion. Are you a real person?

 

[DrummingAtom]

Yes, me telling someone to be wary of job prospects if they only do a BS in physics is a giant conspiracy perpetrated by me to cleverly get everyone else out of the field so I can have all the jobs.

It tickles me that you have read the thread and have actually come to this conclusion. Are you a real person?

No, I'm a tickling machine.

 

[jd1828]

If the physics job market is anything like chemistry, I'd stay far away from it. I have a MS in chemistry and I graduated thinking there would be plenty of job opportunities. There weren't any. I ended up taking the first chem job I got offered. But I have a job and my friends I graduated with got jobs. The pay is absolutely terrible though. A BS engineering grad is going to start out making about $20k more than I make right now.

I guess my point is that you can scrape by (or slightly better) with a physics degree. I'm sure with a bit of luck and timing you can find a great job but I wouldn't bet my savings on that. With that said, I'm quitting chemistry and going back for engineering at 28. I've decided to bet my savings that I'll be better off with a BS in engineering that I am with a MS in chemistry.

Paying tuition is going to be a bit of a problem unless you have a ton of savings or didn't take any loans out for your first degree. I've done a lot of research into financial aid so if you're interested I can explain more. I think the best plan is if you're willing to move there are a lot of accredited engineering schools that are somewhat affordable. The lowest being around $11k a year for out of state tuition. If you're willing to move somewhere and work for a year first to get instate tuition you could easily get a BS for $20k

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Engineering has always been the better choice in regards to starting salaries. For that matter, I know salesmen with no degree who make 200K a year. So if money is the deciding factor, I would say, go into sales.

 

[lisab]

Engineering has always been the better choice in regards to starting salaries. For that matter, I know salesmen with no degree who make 200K a year. So if money is the deciding factor, I would say, go into sales.

Check out my sig .

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Check out my sig .

Yeah, it really ticked me off when I found out what a good lighting salesman makes. However, it is also true that there are many sales jobs that require a technical degree, and those positions can pay very well. Engineering sales can be a highly lucrative career.

However, I do firmly believe that a physics degree [a BS, not sure about the BA versions] gives one a fantastic foundation on which to build a career in related engineering fields. You just have to accept that in order to make it after college, as compared to the standard path for engineers, you will have to work harder and be a little more creative until you find your niche. But then you will have the tools to go as far as you desire. And you will have skills that most people around you don't.

It is pretty hard to stump the band once you've spent four years deriving everything from first principles. Everything else is just applications.

 

[Locrian]

Engineering has always been the better choice in regards to starting salaries. For that matter, I know salesmen with no degree who make 200K a year. So if money is the deciding factor, I would say, go into sales.

Really? What percentage of people who went into sales actually made that much? It's easy to get high values when you drop your low ones.

Sales isn't a good place for people who want money. I would agree, however, that it's a good place for people who want money, have a critical set of other skills necessary to succeed (interpersonal, negotiation, etc., depending on the field/product), and are willing to take risks.

 

[SophusLies]

Really? What percentage of people who went into sales actually made that much? It's easy to get high values when you drop your low ones.

Sales isn't a good place for people who want money. I would agree, however, that it's a good place for people who want money, have a critical set of other skills necessary to succeed (interpersonal, negotiation, etc., depending on the field/product), and are willing to take risks.

If you work at a big company in technical sales you can make 200k. When I was working as a software engineer at a large company, my manager felt I was good at explaining things in meetings, etc. so she had (forced?) me go on trips with the sales team. After a couple of months doing that, my manager promoted me to into technical sales. I worked in technical sales for 2 years, the first year I made ~140k. The next year, after I built up more clients, I made 180k. If I would have stayed in it, 200k would be very realistic.

The job was stressful in terms of multi-tasking and being able to close the sale. A lot of people think of sales as sleazy, as I see from lisab's sig, and some areas can be. Contractor work, telemarketing to elders, etc. Heck even I had a preconceived notion when I got "selected" to hang with the sales team. But my views changed drastically once I was in, it was extremely professional and precise. If you closed a deal that didn't live up to the contract then you made a lot of people angry, on my own side and the clients'. When there's millions of dollars on the line, you have to deliver exactly what you say. I speak for technical sales only, because that's the only sales I know.

I think everyone should go into sales for at least a little while. It taught me so much about teaching and explaining things on a professional level. If the client doesn't understand the product they won't give you their money. Above all, it forced me to deal with stressful "interviews" from clients. I know now if I went to a job interview, I would do extremely well in it because I can sell myself, which unfortunately is something that a lot of math/physics kids don't really care about.

 

[excelsior]

Not high-jack, but what are thoughts on a physics BS for someone looking to get into science/astronomy/physics outreach? Obviously that's a small niche, but I guess you could throw non-university teaching in there. My first BA as in Radio, TV and Film. I'm 29 and prepping to go back for a physics BS. I haven't yet decided if I want to pursue a masters and on.

 

[Locrian]

If you work at a big company in technical sales you can make 200k.

Your post was very interesting, but I do want to point out that you missed the point of mine.

Of course you can make 200k. You can also be a movie star or win the lottery.

What people need to be told are the odds. The necessary skills. The barriers to entry and the speed bumps on the way to the big money.

The post a ways above saying that if you want money you should go into sales is wrong; there are lots of people who just won't cut it in that area of business because the variance in pay and length of time building up the skills makes the net present value of the work a poor investment. For some people working in a steady job they are good at will lead to better monetary rewards than they would have received elsewhere.

 

[Locrian]

I propose the following hypothesis: any sentence in this subforum that tells others what people who want to make money should be doing is wrong.

If you want to make money you should not be in physics. If you want money, don't go into medicine. If you want to make money, go into sales. Wrong wrong wrong.

But I suppose I should have kept it to myself. When you say something like that aloud, it becomes a self-unfulfilling prophecy.

 

[jk]

I have a BS in physics and have been working in industry as a programmer for the last 15 years or so. If you are interested in physics and software, you have good prospects (at least no worse than those who study just CS). Since having a physics degree (with some programming courses) enables you to get the same job as a computer science major, then I would say that the BS in physics is worthwhile if that is your interest.

You just have to be practical and pick up some usable skills along with your programming experience.
You should also do at least a couple of internships while still in school. but that applies to all majors.

 

[SophusLies]

Your post was very interesting, but I do want to point out that you missed the point of mine.

Of course you can make 200k. You can also be a movie star or win the lottery.

What people need to be told are the odds. The necessary skills. The barriers to entry and the speed bumps on the way to the big money.

The post a ways above saying that if you want money you should go into sales is wrong; there are lots of people who just won't cut it in that area of business because the variance in pay and length of time building up the skills makes the net present value of the work a poor investment. For some people working in a steady job they are good at will lead to better monetary rewards than they would have received elsewhere.

I respectfully agree with what you're saying, I just wanted to tell a story. At the company I worked for, I would say that most of the sales team either had a strong sales background or got promoted into sales because the managers knew they would survive. There were a handful of people that I knew that wanted to get into sales but management knew they couldn't hack it and would end up getting fired after failing to sell anything. You're absolutely right that sales isn't for everyone. The money alone isn't enough to keep you going after hearing "no" over and over.

What I thought was interesting was the pressure after a huge deal was usually worse than what it was selling it itself. After you get the money you have to deliver perfect or the client will get angry. They won't contact the test engineers on the 3rd floor that didn't catch the bug that made the software crash, they're going to call you and demand for it to be fixed. Now the fun begins. The ridiculous part about sales, and the big reason others wanted in, was almost everything was paid for. Company car, cell phone, per diem on travel, etc.

 

[SophusLies]

I propose the following hypothesis: any sentence in this subforum that tells others what people who want to make money should be doing is wrong.

If you want to make money you should not be in physics. If you want money, don't go into medicine. If you want to make money, go into sales. Wrong wrong wrong.

I agree, even though it might not have come across that way.

After a long thread, the only advice I can offer to the OP is to study what you like but have a backup plan if it doesn't work out. Good luck.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Really? What percentage of people who went into sales actually made that much? It's easy to get high values when you drop your low ones.

Most of the sales people I worked with made over 100K. You just have to know where the money is, and you have to be greedy [willing to make money your essential goal]. Of course, you also have to be good at it. But if you want to work hard and are willing to sell whatever someone hands you, it is far easier to get rich in sales than any other field. But not all sales are the same. For example, used car sales wouldn't be a good option. If you get on with a company selling large, high tech systems, you will probably do extremely well.

I've been working in industry for 30 years. How about you?

 

[Asocialkat]

Physics/Engineering - Working in Groups & Work Environment

Grrr...I meant to make a new thread...NOT a reply to this dead one. Forgive me. :(

 

[chill_factor]

If the physics job market is anything like chemistry, I'd stay far away from it. I have a MS in chemistry and I graduated thinking there would be plenty of job opportunities. There weren't any. I ended up taking the first chem job I got offered. But I have a job and my friends I graduated with got jobs. The pay is absolutely terrible though. A BS engineering grad is going to start out making about $20k more than I make right now.

I guess my point is that you can scrape by (or slightly better) with a physics degree. I'm sure with a bit of luck and timing you can find a great job but I wouldn't bet my savings on that. With that said, I'm quitting chemistry and going back for engineering at 28. I've decided to bet my savings that I'll be better off with a BS in engineering that I am with a MS in chemistry.

Paying tuition is going to be a bit of a problem unless you have a ton of savings or didn't take any loans out for your first degree. I've done a lot of research into financial aid so if you're interested I can explain more. I think the best plan is if you're willing to move there are a lot of accredited engineering schools that are somewhat affordable. The lowest being around $11k a year for out of state tuition. If you're willing to move somewhere and work for a year first to get instate tuition you could easily get a BS for $20k

I am getting my BS in Chemistry too. Did an internship at a pharmaceutical company doing formulations, all the older chemists were warning me to never get an advanced degree in Chemistry. I'm switching to MS in Physics/Applied Physics.

From what I've seen, MS in Physics could basically take any useful chem job that doesn't involve a lot of organic synthesis, but also take some engineering jobs.

It depends on what engineering. I personally know 1 BS in Biomedical Engineering and 1 BS in Civil Engineering from my school flipping burgers. No degree is a guarantee, it is what you make of it... but Chemistry truly is pretty bad. I think the only science degree worse is anything with the word "Bio" in it.