News Thru the eyes of a marine - seeing the truth.

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the complex realities of Iraq post-invasion, highlighting the decline of pro-American sentiment and the rise of anti-American militancy. Participants reference various polls indicating that 57% of Iraqis wanted the US to leave immediately, while 52% believe violence against US forces can be justified. The conversation emphasizes the importance of acknowledging the nuanced perspectives of Iraqis, particularly in light of the insurgency and the challenges of establishing a stable government. Key points include the need for objective analysis of the situation and the potential for Iraq to become a quagmire if issues are ignored.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the Iraq War and its historical context
  • Familiarity with public opinion polling methodologies
  • Knowledge of the Sunni-Shiite divide in Iraq
  • Awareness of insurgency dynamics and their impact on governance
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of the Sunni-Shiite divide on Iraq's political landscape
  • Examine methodologies used in public opinion polling in conflict zones
  • Study the evolution of insurgency tactics in Iraq post-2003
  • Analyze case studies of post-conflict reconstruction in other nations
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for political analysts, historians, military strategists, and anyone interested in understanding the complexities of post-war Iraq and the factors influencing public sentiment in conflict situations.

  • #31
studentx said:
But why is the situation worsening...

If you look back at the past 6 months , at all the incidents and bombings, how many of those were started by Americans?
When you read in the paper that 280 Iraqis , the UN and a dozen Iraqi police stations are blown up killing 0 Americans, do you think to yourself "Iraq is a mess. Damn that Bush"?

According to you Jcsd, what are the Americans doing wrong to cause these bombings?

I don't think I've blamed the US at all (though I did mention that US forces simply aren't trained for this kind of undertaking which I feel is a major oversight in US miltary training in general, howvere this would be little more than a periphal contributer to the current situation), what I have siad is that prenetmding that the situation is improving and that re-construction is going well is one of the worst things that can be done at the moment.
 
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  • #32
Jcsd, if the American military would say things are worsening, what do you think would happen?
Would it stop the bombings, or would it give these terrorists a sense that they are winning the battle? Wouldnt other countries pull out when the biggest force in the country loses control?

How many ppl has Bush convinced that evrything is improving? Isnt popular opinion in fact against Bush and believe Iraq is a mess? Why do they want to hear from Bush' mouth that things are going down the drain, when they are already convinced of it? Why do you Jcsd? :rolleyes:

I will give another riddle Jcsd and please answer it this time.
Youre playing simcity4 and youve just built a wonderful city. The infrastructure is splendid and so is the music, but a terrorist blows it up!
Do you admit you made a horrible mistake?
 
  • #33
studentx said:
Jcsd, if the American military would say things are worsening, what do you think would happen?
Would it stop the bombings, or would it give these terrorists a sense that they are winning the battle? Wouldnt other countries pull out when the biggest force in the country loses control?

How many ppl has Bush convinced that evrything is improving? Isnt popular opinion in fact against Bush and believe Iraq is a mess? Why do they want to hear from Bush' mouth that things are going down the drain, when they are already convinced of it? Why do you Jcsd? :rolleyes:

I will give another riddle Jcsd and please answer it this time.
Youre playing simcity4 and youve just built a wonderful city. The infrastructure is splendid and so is the music, but a terrorist blows it up!
Do you admit you made a horrible mistake?
On the other hand, wouldn't it be comforting to know that the people in charge are facing the trouble head-on, instead of concerning themselves with keeping up a happy facade? From my personal experience, there is nothing worse than someone playing their fiddle while Rome is burning...not only can you see things are bad, but you have zero confidence that the people in charge are capable of doing ANYTHING to fix it.

I much prefer a "hey, things aren't going as planned, but I'm confident that we can adjust strategy and come out ahead", than someone claiming to "stay the course" when the course isn't working.
 
  • #34
studentx said:
Jcsd, if the American military would say things are worsening, what do you think would happen?
Would it stop the bombings, or would it give these terrorists a sense that they are winning the battle? Wouldnt other countries pull out when the biggest force in the country loses control?

How many ppl has Bush convinced that evrything is improving? Isnt popular opinion in fact against Bush and believe Iraq is a mess? Why do they want to hear from Bush' mouth that things are going down the drain, when they are already convinced of it? Why do you Jcsd? :rolleyes:

I will give another riddle Jcsd and please answer it this time.
Youre playing simcity4 and youve just built a wonderful city. The infrastructure is splendid and so is the music, but a terrorist blows it up!
Do you admit you made a horrible mistake?

No what I'm saying is ignoring the problem won't make it go away, so rather than trumpeting how everything's A-OK people shold be looking at the situation with a pragmatic mindset.
 
  • #35
jcsd said:
No what I'm saying is ignoring the problem won't make it go away, so rather than trumpeting how everything's A-OK people shold be looking at the situation with a pragmatic mindset.
And pragmatic doesn't mean panicking...it just means saying "look, this is a place where we can show some improvement, the initial plan was based on events that didn't pan out, so we're going to change things to suit reality."

This should really be no big deal... plans become obsolete the moment reality kicks in, there is no shame in adimtting this fact and moving on. Flexibility is as much of a positive triat as consistency, each in their proper place.
 
  • #36
There is no strategy that stops terrorism. If it existed than the entire planet would be using it.
Whatever strategy the Americans will adapt to, the terrorists will adapt to.

There are many things the ppl want Bush to do. They want him to pull out of Iraq, they want him to apologize to all muslims for being an infidel, they want him to admit defeat, you want him to admit there is a problem. You are very divided
 
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  • #37
I much prefer a "hey, things aren't going as planned, but I'm confident that we can adjust strategy and come out ahead", than someone claiming to "stay the course" when the course isn't working.
__________________
I rule!
When things arent working, they just send in the Ba'athist generals, and with startling success I might add. At this rate, Saddam should be back in command oh about November.
 
  • #38
schwarzchildradius said:
Saddam should be back in command oh about November.

LOL Saddam's future is the same as Stalin's and Hitler's; in the evenings, he'll be on the History Channel. Watch for him in the listings. Don't go away, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor...
 

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