Tidal bulge on the moon, and its facing etc

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    Moon Tidal
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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the phenomenon of tidal locking, specifically focusing on the Moon's synchronous rotation with Earth, the presence of tidal bulges, and the implications of these features on the Moon's surface characteristics. Participants explore the historical context of the Moon's tidal locking, comparisons with other celestial bodies, and the distribution of impact craters on the Moon's near and far sides.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express fascination with the Moon's synchronous rotation and seek to understand the evidence for tidal bulges on the Moon.
  • One participant mentions that Mercury exhibits a similar phenomenon with its axial rotation and orbital period, suggesting a historical context for tidal locking.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that the far side of the Moon has more craters than the near side, citing their own research on the cratering of various moons.
  • It is noted that the Moon's tidal bulge is not the primary factor for its orientation; rather, the offset of the Moon's center of mass and the thickness of its crust play significant roles.
  • Participants discuss the long duration of the Moon's tidal locking, estimating it has been in this state for about 4.5 billion years, since shortly after its formation.
  • There are questions regarding the reasons for the Moon's asymmetric mass distribution, with some conjectures mentioned but no confirmed explanations provided.
  • One participant raises a question about the high number of impact craters on the near side of the Moon, seeking further insights into this observation.
  • Another participant suggests that the near side might be somewhat shielded from impacts due to Earth's gravitational influence, while questioning the directional impact of debris on the far side.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the distribution of craters on the Moon's near and far sides, with no consensus reached on the reasons behind these observations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of tidal locking and the characteristics of other celestial bodies.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the Moon's cratering and tidal locking are based on varying interpretations and research, with limitations in the available evidence and assumptions about historical conditions.

Curious45
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The fact the moon always faces us the same way fascinates me. Apparently the explanation is that our tidal bulge, and its tidal bulge "sync", which sort of makes sense.

I wanted to know a bit more about this, if you guys don't mind helping a layman understand it all.

Do we have evidence of a tidal bulge on the moon? (obviously we have evidence of tidal bulge of the oceans!)

There are craters all over the side that faces us (apparently more so than the "darkside), so presumably its very old, and hasn't always been synced, or was maybe synced in the opposite direction?

Do we know how long its been synced this way?

How common is this feature of a satellite? Are we aware of any planets that do this with their sun? Or any other moons that do this? Is it statistically rare?

Sorry if my questions seem dumb, this stuff seems hard to google without getting either simple explanations, or a whole bunch of wacko stuff. Appreciate the help, cheers!
 
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The planet Mercurey is close to that
tidal forces from the sun have slowed Mercury's axial rotation to 59 days. It has an orbital period of only 88 days. So quite close

I couldn't find what an earlier axial rotation period was. This with expertise in orbital mechanics would be able to say.

but it could hint at that maybe at one time, in the dim distant past, its orbital rotation period may have equalled its axial rotation period and that would have been like the Earth-Moon scenario

Dave
 
I always thought the darkside had a lot more craters than the side which faces The Earth?! I do also have to say, the Moon having a rotational period the same as the orbital period has long been considered a fascinating coincidence, somehow aligned to many different causes of reasoning. It is however, relatively common... Phobos, Deimos, Io, Europa and Ganymede all have the same length of day and year (I checked a total of 10 moons, of which, 9 have this same characteristic... is this correct or just badly researched?).

I am however, also fascinated as to this reasoning; it seems to be a facet of observed moons being closer to a rule than an exception but why?! One would think the same might apply to planets orbiting a star; is it just that our planets are not yet old enough to have resolved to their 'prefered' natural state?
 
In most cases, planets will eventually become tidally locked with their parent star, although it may take a very long time.
 
Curious45 said:
The fact the moon always faces us the same way fascinates me. Apparently the explanation is that our tidal bulge, and its tidal bulge "sync", which sort of makes sense.
That's not quite right. The Moon does have a tidal bulge, but this isn't the driving factor for the Moon's orientation. The key factor is that the Moon's center of mass is offset from it's center of figure by about 2 km. The crust on the far side of the Moon is considerably thicker than is the crust on the near side. This asymmetric mass distribution means that a restoring torque arises whenever the Moon's orientation deviates from the stable configuration.
Do we know how long its been synced this way?
For a long, long time, since shortly after the Moon formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The Moon formed at about 1/10 of it's current distance from the Earth, which means tidal forces were about 1000 times stronger than they are now. Tidal locking was quick.Anticipating the follow-on question, "Why does the Moon have this asymmetric mass distribution?", -- The answer is we don't know. There are lots of conjectures out there, but as far as I know, none of them has been confirmed.
 
D H said:
That's not quite right. The Moon does have a tidal bulge, but this isn't the driving factor for the Moon's orientation. The key factor is that the Moon's center of mass is offset from it's center of figure by about 2 km. The crust on the far side of the Moon is considerably thicker than is the crust on the near side. This asymmetric mass distribution means that a restoring torque arises whenever the Moon's orientation deviates from the stable configuration.
For a long, long time, since shortly after the Moon formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The Moon formed at about 1/10 of it's current distance from the Earth, which means tidal forces were about 1000 times stronger than they are now. Tidal locking was quick.Anticipating the follow-on question, "Why does the Moon have this asymmetric mass distribution?", -- The answer is we don't know. There are lots of conjectures out there, but as far as I know, none of them has been confirmed.

Actually my follow-on question would be, if this is due to the moons mass, and something that has apparently been around for ages, why is the near Earth side very covered in impact craters..(Not that there has to be an explanation, just if anyone knows)

Thanks for the useful and informative answers there guys! :)
 
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Curious45 said:
Actually my follow-on question would be, if this is due to the moons mass, and something that has apparently been around for ages, why is the near Earth side very covered in impact craters..(Not that there has to be an explanation, just if anyone knows)

Thanks for the useful and informative answers there guys! :)

There's no reason why the near side shouldn't have lots of craters, but the far side is still much more cratered than the near side

actually, what I find more interesting is the presence of all the Mare's on the near side which are almost non-existant on the far side ( a couple of small ones )

attachment.php?attachmentid=56868&stc=1&d=1363677262.jpg




Dave
 

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General readers,

Offhand, shouldn't the near side of the moon be somewhat sheltered from debris impacts by Earth and it's gravitational shadow/field? Plus is it also possible that slightly more objects are directed to impact the backside by a more directional combination of earth/moon inline gravities?

Curious45,

There is a short, decent explanation of Tidal Locking on Wikipedia. I once kidded my young grandson that we should "spin" the moon with rocket engines so we didn't have to look at the same side all the time with a telescope. But I found that once the rocket engines were shut off, the moon would eventually return to a lock condition. The wiki lock exlanation proved too complicated for a young child, but is ok for a young adult.

Wes
...
 

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