Time Before The Universe Was Created

  • Thread starter Thread starter krusty the clown
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Time Universe
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time before the creation of the universe, particularly in relation to the Christian understanding of God as eternal and the implications of this on the nature of time. Participants explore philosophical and theological questions about the existence of time prior to creation, the nature of God's decisions, and the concept of infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Erik questions how an eternal God could decide to create the universe after an infinite amount of time, likening it to counting to infinity.
  • Some participants suggest that if God is conscious, the timing of creation is based on His will rather than a temporal constraint.
  • One participant references Augustine's perspective on difficult questions regarding God's nature and actions.
  • A participant argues that the Bible does not necessitate that God created time, suggesting that time may have existed before creation but was not measured until the creation of the Son.
  • Another participant asserts that if God is eternal, then time must have existed before the universe, as age implies the existence of time.
  • There is a discussion about whether measured infinite time differs from unmeasured infinite time, raising questions about the nature of existence and time.
  • One participant posits that if time is infinite, it raises the question of how anything could occur at a specific point in time.
  • Another participant suggests that time may be an artifact for observers, leading to considerations of bounded versus unbounded time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature of time and God's relationship to it, with no clear consensus reached. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations of the relationship between God, time, and creation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on religious texts and interpretations, as well as the philosophical implications of infinity and time that are not universally agreed upon.

krusty the clown
I was raised in a home where God was just the accepted thing. Now that I am older I have started to raise questions that people I know, mom, dad, friends, relatives, can't answer. So I decided to ask it here.
My question is somewhat hard to put into words and have it related to others the same way that I am thinking it, so if anything is unclear or confusing just let me know. Also, my question won't really make sense if religion is completley left out. My post is not directly about religion but it will be more clear If everyone realizes I am talking about the God of Christianity. If this is in violation of any rules just let me know and I will try to edit it to remove all religion or will just delete my post.
First off, some general obvious points if you believe in the Christian God.

1) God is eternal- He has always been around, always will be around.
2) God created the universe out of nothing.
3) Before God created the universe there was nothing but him

My question is about time before the universe was created. If God was around for an infinite time before the universe was created then how did he ever get to the point where he decided to create something? I think it is easier to visualise if you think of it as counting to infinty, and when you get to infinity you will go buy a car, you can always count one more number and never get to infinty and never get your car. Wouldn't it be the same with God and time? Couldn't you always go one more interval of time? Or does the fact that nothing exists except God change the concept of time to something different than what I think of time as?

Thanks,
Erik
 
Space news on Phys.org
i guess if you say that god is conscious it wouldn't really matter "when" he created the universe because the answer is simply "when he felt like it". however your question on what god would be doing before is just mind boggling. maybe some day we'll know; then again, maybe we won't .

as for the forum guide lines, just keep your specific religion out of the post and i think all will be good.
 
Perhaps you have heard Augustine's reply to just that question. "Making Hell to put people with invonvenient questions in."
 
Welcome to the PFs, Erik! :smile:

I don't know how well Kerrie will take to such a religiously inclined post, but while it's here I'll take a shot at your question:

The Bible never necessitates that God created time or space, merely that he created everything in them. Remember the Genesis account of Creation? The first verse reads "In the beginning...", thus there must have been a set notion of time, because God is referring to what happened in the beginning of His creative work. However, this verse does not refer to the actual beginning of all creative work, since, as Colossians 4:15 says, God's first creation was his fist-born Son ("Jesus", "Michael", he's been called a couple of different names in the Bible), and thus the concept of set points in time must have been started at the creation of Michael (I say this because the verse in Colossians says he is the "first-born of all creation" and that means that God didn't "do" anything until that point, there was nothing to "do" anything with).

Basically, what I'm saying is that, if you take the Bible to be true, then there has always been time, but set and measured time did not begin until the creation of the Son.
 
God is eternal- He has always been around, always will be around.

If this the case of the christain god, then time was around before god created the universe, since if he was always around his age would be infinite, and you could only have age with time.
 
Originally posted by Turtle
If this the case of the christain god, then time was around before god created the universe, since if he was always around his age would be infinite, and you could only have age with time.

You are exactly right, Turtle. This is a point I've been trying to get across to a certain Christian friend of mine, but some people just like to stick to what they've believed for their whole lives, they won't reason beyond that.
 
Basically, what I'm saying is that, if you take the Bible to be true, then there has always been time, but set and measured time did not begin until the creation of the Son.

I guess that this would be the answer to my question, but is a measured infinite amount of time any different than an infinite amount of time that isn't measured? I wish I knew more about these kinds of things but it is just in the last couple of weeks that I have started to wonder about things and actually question what I believe and what others tell me to believe.

I was sitting in bed last night and came up with this. Say that when you die, something lives on. Be it your soul, or whatever. And whatever lives on (I'm trying to keep my specific religion out) goes somewhere. Let's just say it wanders around forever. Then whatever lived on is everlasting,-had a beginning, birth, but has no end, just keeps wandering around.
You will always be able to look back, no matter how long you wait, and be able to put the time you have waited into a number. Eventually the number will become super large but it never will reach infinity. I think.
If you have a piece of land that is infinty miles across, no matter how far you walk in a day you will be no closer to the end than when you started, because there is no end.
If there is an infinite time before you do something, will you ever do it? If a god was around for an infinite time before he decided to do anything, would he ever get around to doing it?

Sorry if my post seems all over the place but I am really confused, every time I try to put a question into words another question pops in and then I have to start all over again. And I have had a really bad week, my best friends mom got in a car accident and got ran over by a semi. The doctors say she will be able to go home in about a week, but she is pretty messed up.
 
Krusty, the point you're making about infinity can be said about anything; not just god. If time is truly infinite, then how does anything that happens at a point in time ever happen? It would take an infinite amount of time to get to anyone point on the time line. This is very much like a fixed measure of distance. A mile has an infinite number of points within it, yet you can pass over these infinite points to get from the beginning to the end in a matter of minutes
 
klc,

Perhaps physics, of which time is a part, is just an artifact to occupy observers like us.

Also, from my website:
If we think of local time as absolute, not interval, we must consider global time bounded (with a referential beginning and/or end); or, if we think of local time as interval, not absolute, we must consider global time unbounded (without a referential beginning and end).
 

Similar threads

High School Conflict between the conservation of matter and the rapid expansion of our universe
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
Graduate Questions: Gott-Li Can a Universe Create Itself?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
High School Pressure on creation of the Universe
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
High School Big Bang and Infinite Universe
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
Undergrad Black Hole to Other Universe: Violation of 1st Law?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Undergrad Can Energy Naturally Convert to Matter in the Universe?
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Undergrad How do CTCs allow a universe to self-create?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
High School Does Roger Penrose's Big Bang cyclic-universe thing make sense?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Graduate Particles (The Universe) Popping Up Into Existence
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K
High School Questions About the Growth of the Universe
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K