Time can't exist without matter (mass) and motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of time and its relationship with mass and motion, specifically through a thought experiment involving the rest mass of a photon. Participants explore theoretical implications and challenge the validity of the proposed derivations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a derivation to show that time cannot exist without mass and motion by arguing that if a photon has zero rest mass, then stopping all matter would imply that time ceases to exist.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of treating a photon as being at rest, stating that photons always move at the speed of light.
  • A different participant encourages the original poster, Lakshya, to continue exploring and asking questions, noting his young age and potential for future understanding.
  • Concerns are raised about the appropriateness of discussing personal information, with some participants suggesting that anonymity is important for safety, especially for younger users.
  • Some participants express frustration over the focus on personal details rather than the scientific inquiry, with one participant requesting a focus on identifying anomalies in the original argument.
  • Another participant argues that using an "outside the universe" perspective, akin to a divine observer, is a valid approach for thought experiments, while others express skepticism about the relevance of such methods.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of grounding thought experiments in reality, suggesting that if they can assume anything, they lose their scientific value.
  • Another participant defends Lakshya's premise as a mature idea, comparing it to foundational concepts in physics, and encourages critical thinking within the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the thought experiment or the implications of the arguments presented. There are multiple competing views regarding the treatment of photons and the nature of thought experiments.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the equations used in the original argument apply specifically to bodies at rest with respect to an observer, which complicates the application to photons. The discussion also touches on the implications of using hypothetical scenarios that may not align with established scientific principles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring foundational concepts in physics, particularly the nature of time, mass, and motion, as well as young learners seeking to engage with complex scientific ideas.

  • #61
hey guys..im Sudhir and i am new to this and HI lakshya.im 14 years old! i really love astronomy and beyond SCIENCE and i know That the plaussible theory of everythin is string theory. however, due to the condridations of the mathemathics t hasnte been proven. i don't know the math behind the string theory, but do believe that i have the general ansewr to the theory of everyhitng. in fact it is simpler than the theory of relativity..
 
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  • #62
sLeeping_bEauti said:
I havnt covered this bit yet but can you ever in any instance stop a photon moving?

katii x

Well, there is the question of what happens to a photon when it is re-absorbed. Is the photon still independently extant in the electron post-absorption? You can bring an electron to relative rest, so maybe the photon is resting too. (more probably pacing in it's cell.)

-Mikey
 
  • #63
Photons r never at rest and maybe tats y thet dnt have mass
 
  • #64
{If this needs it's own thread, no problemo}

It occurred to me while reading this thread to ask about 'when' a photon is generated.

Let's say we have a radio station, and it's frequency is one cycle per second. They have been on the air for 2 seconds. How far away has the radio signal propagated in that time?
 
  • #65
Well right now I am not going to use the standard based model of space/time. By your statement you would say that every particle in the universe is vibrating at a certain frequency in order for time to exist it would need mass hence space/time. space/time's basis is on the ability of an object to be at motion, Newtonian mechanics state "Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it." But if this law is true it would then revoke the fact that motion is the basis of space/time. But einstein's theories were mainly based on a photon's speed being the cosmic limit. But i propose hypothetically, what if the cosmic limit is proportionate to the expansion of the universe and that it is just the constant so it would be Cosmic limit = k x rate of expansion (which k is the constant and is light in this case c ) . Our perception of time may not be accurate as we only experience time in a forwards motion. I also assume that there are tachyonic particles (When making light relative to the cosmic limit) as we live in a megaverse not a universe so i would assume they are particles faster than our universe's cosmic limit. If any flaw is noticed please make me aware as I am only 14 and i am just hypothesising.
 
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  • #66
Well your statement and references to E=mc^2 may be true but it doesn't mean or prove in any way that everything will vanish the object may just come to rest the speed of light may also not be the comic limit we assume einstein is correct but I am sure he may not be. if any particle is able to use a multidimensional shortcut it would still be considered faster than the speed of light and to a 4 dimensional space /time they may be creatures who are able to manipulate time as time is linear. I would assume that antimatter can oppose gravity or that anti matter may be able to move in reverse motion . If there are any flaws in my thoughts please show me as i am a novice only 14 :)
 

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