Time Travel Paradox Involving Couples

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hypothetical time travel paradox involving couples seeding the human race, exploring concepts of determinism, free will, and the implications of time travel on causality and existence. Participants engage in a mix of speculative reasoning and critiques of each other's views.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the scenario of couples traveling back in time to seed humanity could be described as a feedback loop.
  • Others dismiss the idea as nonsense, suggesting it lacks scientific validity.
  • A participant references a specific episode of Futurama as a related paradox, indicating a cultural touchstone for the discussion.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions underlying time travel, particularly the lack of scientific confirmation for backward time travel.
  • Some argue that if time travel were possible, it would imply a predetermined universe where all actions are interconnected, akin to a movie's narrative.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes the distinction between past and future in the context of relativity, suggesting that each individual's timeline is unique.
  • Participants debate the implications of determinism, with some asserting that without free will, all comments and actions are meaningless, while others argue that meaning can still exist within a deterministic framework.
  • There are challenges to the idea of predeterminism, with participants questioning the logic behind equating claims with truth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the nature of time travel, determinism, and free will. Participants express differing opinions on the validity of the original paradox and the implications of their philosophical positions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding time travel and determinism, noting that assumptions about free will and causality are central to the debate. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations of relativity and the philosophical implications of time travel.

davo-3000
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Has Anyone ever thought of this time travel paradox before?
That a couple or more (some men and some women ok) went back in time via a Time Machine and started, i.e. seeded the Human race? That is the Human Race is a Perpetual Loop?
What would this be called??
A feedback loop?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
davo-3000 said:
What would this be called??
Nonsense.
 
You could call it the season 3 episode 19 of Futurama paradox.
 
Or any of a number of really bad science fiction novels (including some by authors who should have known better).
 
Ha, my last response made me feel kind of mean. At least davo-3000 is curious.

It's preferred to stay away from the falsely seeming "glamorous" side of relativity that the discovery channel often dives into. This question alone assumes the possibility to travel backwards in time, a feat yet to be scientifically confirmed as possible. No one on this forum would know what would happen in this scenario because we can't even fathom the preceding breakthroughs in our understanding of the laws of Physics.

Hope that helps ease your curiosity in some way davo-3000.
 
You have no free will in the universe to play around like that. If you were to travel back in time it must be predetermined. More relevant is time travel to the future which many say is more likely and again the answer is that all of your actions are as predetermined as are the future actions you are visiting.. it's all connected like a puzzle so you can never break it.

The reason people think of these paradoxes is because they think that the future and past are distinct in alteration- but they are not- they are just as much connected as the beginning and end of a movie.
 
rocket123456 said:
You have no free will in the universe to play around like that. If you were to travel back in time it must be predetermined. More relevant is time travel to the future which many say is more likely and again the answer is that all of your actions are as predetermined as are the future actions you are visiting.. it's all connected like a puzzle so you can never break it.

The reason people think of these paradoxes is because they think that the future and past are distinct in alteration- but they are not- they are just as much connected as the beginning and end of a movie.
You obviously don't believe a word of what you are saying or you wouldn't waste your time trying to persuade anyone else to this kind of nonsense. And you obviously have never made a movie--a lot of free will goes into such an undertaking.

And if you object to what I'm saying, it just goes to show that you don't believe my actions are predetermined.
 
ghwellsjr said:
You obviously don't believe a word of what you are saying or you wouldn't waste your time trying to persuade anyone else to this kind of nonsense. And you obviously have never made a movie--a lot of free will goes into such an undertaking.

And if you object to what I'm saying, it just goes to show that you don't believe my actions are predetermined.



Einstein, if I claim everything is predetermined, THen that truly means that everything is predetermined..

my need to persuade is predetermined, your reaction to my attempt to persuation is predetermined, my reaction to your comment is predetermined.. your reaction to this comment is predetermined e.t.c What part of this is difficult to understand?
 
rocket123456 said:
Einstein, if I claim everything is predetermined, THen that truly means that everything is predetermined..

my need to persuade is predetermined, your reaction to my attempt to persuation is predetermined, my reaction to your comment is predetermined.. your reaction to this comment is predetermined e.t.c What part of this is difficult to understand?
I didn't think you really believed it.
 
  • #10
It's called cause and effect..you think all your thoughts arise from no source?
They are all deduced from the previous mental state all starting from your birth.


My radical "belief" is shared by Einstein, Shroedinger, Hume, Russell, Krauss, Davies, Caroll, Hawking e.t.c
 
  • #11
rocket123456 said:
It's called cause and effect..you think all your thoughts arise from no source?
They are all deduced from the previous mental state all starting from your birth.


My radical "belief" is shared by Einstein, Shroedinger, Hume, Russell, Krauss, Davies, Caroll, Hawking e.t.c
There you go again, trying to persuade me to change my mind.
 
  • #12
You don't seem to see that there is a reason for every action...for instance if it's predetermined that you will become a determinist, then of course something must bring that about such as persuation from me.

Similarly when you advice your friend not to go out in a storm, you are not just saying something meaningless, but actually you are predetermined to either stop your friend from going out, or predetermined to fail from stopping him.

You don't seem to get that none of our comments are meaningless, rather they serve as the instrument, tool for the future events to occur.
 
  • #13
Without free will, all comments are meaningless (or nonsense). With free will, only some comments are meaningless (or nonsense). Without free will, we cannot determine which comments have meaning and which are nonsense. My free will allows me to determine that this thread contains a lot of nonsense.
 
  • #14
TheEtherWind said:
You could call it the season 3 episode 19 of Futurama paradox.

BEST EPISODE EVER!

Must be the "Upgrade/downgrade" Bender one.
 
  • #15
rocket123456 said:
The reason people think of these paradoxes is because they think that the future and past are distinct in alteration- but they are not- they are just as much connected as the beginning and end of a movie.

From a causal perspective for sure it's "connected". but from a timeline perspective we each have our own "movie" timeline. Each of our own movie timelines has a distinct past/future.

I find it misleading to use the terms "past" & "future" traditionally when discussing relativity. Because of the point you make of them being traditionally seen as [STRIKE]distinct[/STRIKE] absolute. Which they are along a single world line(?) but are not in comparison with multiple world lines.

If someone is asking if we can go back in time, I would guess they wouldn't have a clear understanding of past/future from a relativity perspective.

Your belief in such a strong "deterministic universe" is surprising. You don't even excuse yourself, other than name dropping who you agree with.
 
Last edited:
  • #16
rocket123456 said:
Einstein, if I claim everything is predetermined, THen that truly means that everything is predetermined..
So you just said that because you claim something, that makes it true?
 
  • #17
ghwellsjr said:
There you go again, trying to persuade me to change my mind.
Well, he couldn't help himself!
 
  • #18
HallsofIvy said:
So you just said that because you claim something, that makes it true?

No it's a deductive argument:

<If> I sincerely hold to the proposition: <"everything is predetermined"> I can still make active propositions without contradicting my convictions. This other individual seemed to implie that I was somehow irrational to be commiting myself to an act of persuation.
 
Last edited:
  • #19
ghwellsjr said:
Without free will, all comments are meaningless (or nonsense). With free will, only some comments are meaningless (or nonsense). Without free will, we cannot determine which comments have meaning and which are nonsense. My free will allows me to determine that this thread contains a lot of nonsense.

See there you go again... WHy on Earth would predeterminism make us unable to distinguish truth from falsehood ?

Gosh maybe I should write a book or something so much predetermined confusion:smile:

O well let's see if I truly become predetermined to write it.

See? I can make sense of every single statement while holding to my dear determinism.
 

Similar threads

High School The expansion of the Universe and time travel (By a non-scientist)
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
High School Time Travel: Can Humans Go Faster Than Ordinary Speed?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
High School Travel Times & Distances: Twin Paradox & Alpha Centauri
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
High School New Paradox Discovered, I Think
  • · Replies 98 ·
4
Replies
98
Views
9K
Undergrad Time travel is a fact or fiction.?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
High School What Are Closed Timelike Curves and Common Misunderstandings About Them?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
High School How much time passes on Earth?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
High School Trying to understand what "time" is (layperson)
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Undergrad Twin Paradox Explained: No Math Required
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
High School Traveling backwards through time: clarification please
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
3K