Titan - the next closest thing to Earth.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions on Titan, Saturn's largest moon, and whether it could sustain human life. Participants explore various aspects of Titan's atmosphere, temperature, and the presence of liquids, while also addressing misconceptions and raising questions about its potential for supporting life.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Titan cannot sustain human life due to its extremely low temperatures and high atmospheric pressure.
  • There is a claim that Titan has bodies of water, which others clarify are actually believed to be methane.
  • A participant questions the idea that a spark would cause an explosion on Titan, suggesting that the necessary components for combustion are not present.
  • Another participant mentions that Titan's low gravity and high atmospheric pressure could allow a person to fly by flapping their arms, raising questions about the consistency of these conditions.
  • Some contributions highlight the unique composition of Titan's atmosphere, which is primarily nitrogen and contains various compounds formed from methane and nitrogen photochemistry.
  • There is a discussion about the significance of Titan's atmospheric pressure being greater than Earth's and how this relates to its density and the potential for human survival.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Titan cannot support human life, but there are multiple competing views regarding the nature of its liquids, the implications of its atmospheric conditions, and the potential for combustion. The discussion remains unresolved on several technical points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about the presence of oxygen and the implications of atmospheric pressure and density. Some participants express confusion about how low gravity can coexist with high atmospheric pressure, indicating a need for further clarification.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring astrobiology, planetary science, and the conditions necessary for life beyond Earth.

Saturni
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Can Titan substain human life? Answer: no.
The temperature on Titan is a freezing -179 degrees C, or 290 degrees F.
But unlike other moons, Titan, in fact has known bodies of water on it. Which is amazing.
But sadly, if you ever lived to stand on Titan, the pressure would literally bust your eardrums, and eventually kill you.
The funny thing is, if you lit a match, or even the tiniest spark on Titan occurred, the whole planet would erupt in flames.

Funny huh?

-Derek
 
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Saturni said:
But unlike other moons, Titan, in fact has known bodies of water on it.

Those bodies of liquid are actually believed to be methane, not water...fyi.
 
BoomBoom said:
Those bodies of liquid are actually believed to be methane, not water...fyi.
saturn.jpl.nasa.gov "Bodies of water".
 
Saturni said:
The funny thing is, if you lit a match, or even the tiniest spark on Titan occurred, the whole planet would erupt in flames.
Why do you think that?

The methane?

Do you think in the history of Titan there has never been a lightning bolt?

Combustion requires three components: fuel, heat and oxygen. One of these is not present on Titan (hint: it's not heat either)
 
Saturni said:
Can Titan substain human life? Answer: no.
The temperature on Titan is a freezing -179 degrees C, or 290 degrees F.
But unlike other moons, Titan, in fact has known bodies of water on it. Which is amazing.
But sadly, if you ever lived to stand on Titan, the pressure would literally bust your eardrums, and eventually kill you.
The funny thing is, if you lit a match, or even the tiniest spark on Titan occurred, the whole planet would erupt in flames.

Funny huh?

-Derek

What is the point of this? To inform us of the conditions on Titan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon )
 
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Europa is the only moon known to have water. Titan has an atmosphere which is pretty cool but still could not support human life. The only outside life in our solar system would be microorganisms like algae. But we haven't found it yet.
 
I forgot where I read this but apparently, due to the low gravity (0.15 g) and high atmospheric pressure (1.5 atm) on Titan, a person could literally fly by flapping their arms, like swimming I guess.
 
Saturni said:
saturn.jpl.nasa.gov "Bodies of water".
A google of the site does not turn up that phrase - could you post the actual link where you got it and a fuller quote?
 
While we're at it, I'm just wondering, what would be the closest thing to Earth in our solar system (other than Earth)?
 
  • #11
QuantumPion said:
I forgot where I read this but apparently, due to the low gravity (0.15 g) and high atmospheric pressure (1.5 atm) on Titan, a person could literally fly by flapping their arms, like swimming I guess.

:confused: I'm wondering how low gravity is consistent with high atmospheric pressure. :frown:
 
  • #12
As Dave hinted, no oxygen, no inferno. Oxygen is almost surely biogenic. Any primordial oxygen would be rapidly consumed by chemical processes. Only biological organisms [eg, photosynthesizing plants] are capable of replenishing atmospheric oxygen. This is one of the signatures [ozone to be exact] exoplanetary scientists are looking for as evidence of extraterrestrial life.
 
  • #13
epenguin said:
:confused: I'm wondering how low gravity is consistent with high atmospheric pressure. :frown:
Titan is the moon of a gas giant.
 
  • #14
epenguin said:
:confused: I'm wondering how low gravity is consistent with high atmospheric pressure. :frown:


Different gasses; heavier gasses.
 
  • #15
epenguin said:
:confused: I'm wondering how low gravity is consistent with high atmospheric pressure. :frown:
Low temperature means high molecular density.

P ~ ρgh.

Titan: A Moon with Atmosphere
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1755.html

It's also the only atmosphere in the solar system that, like Earth's, is dominated by nitrogen. And that's actually a big mystery - both on Earth and on Titan. Why is there so much nitrogen? If you look at Venus and Mars, the amount of nitrogen is very small, only a few percent. On Earth it's 80 percent. On Titan it's 95 percent.

The interesting thing about Titan's atmosphere is not just that it's made out of nitrogen, but it has all these other compounds in it, all produced from methane and nitrogen photochemistry. Sunlight is hitting the methane molecules, breaking it up , and then they're reacting to form all of these compounds: benzene, acetylene, propane and so on. . . .

. . . . Titan has 1.5 times Earth's atmospheric pressure.


http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Titan

The temperature at Titan's surface is about -178 °C (-289°F).

Titan is of great interest to scientists because it is the only moon in the solar system known to have clouds and a mysterious, thick, planet-like atmosphere. In 1980, NASA's Voyager 1 spacecraft tried to take close up images of the natural features of Titan's landscape but was unable to penetrate the thick clouds. Instead, the images showed only slight color and brightness variations in the atmosphere. Titan's atmospheric pressure is about 60 percent greater than Earth's - roughly the same pressure found at the bottom of a swimming pool.


http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/media/cassini-20080320.html
The study of Titan is a major goal of the Cassini-Huygens mission because it may preserve, in deep-freeze, many of the chemical compounds that preceded life on Earth. Titan is the only moon in the solar system that possesses a dense atmosphere. The moon's atmosphere is 1.5 times denser than Earth's. Titan is the largest of Saturn's moons, bigger than the planet Mercury.


The Atmosphere of Titan


Measurements of Titan's atmosphere - thickness.

200 km from ESA data - http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Cassini-Huygens/SEMMF2HHZTD_0.html

http://live.psu.edu/story/6330
Chandra's observation revealed that the diameter of the X-ray shadow cast by Titan was larger than the diameter of its solid surface. The difference in diameters gives a measurement of about 550 miles (880 kilometers) for the height of the X-ray absorbing region of Titan's atmosphere. The extent of the upper atmosphere is consistent with, or slightly (10 to 15 percent) larger, than that implied by Voyager I observations made at radio, infrared and ultraviolet wavelengths in 1980.

An X-ray measurement of Titan's atmospheric extent from its transit of the Crab Nebula
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0403283v1



1.5 atm (earth) is not extraordinarily high and divers on Earth breath at much greater pressures. Of course, on Titan, just like underwater, one would have to breath oxygen or air from a container.


I'm curious about the comment that Titan's atmosphere is 1.5 denser as opposed to Titan's atmospheric pressure is 1.5 times that of Earth, or 60% greater (1.6 times?). Since the gravity on Titan is about 0.15 of earth, then if the pressure is 1.5 times that of earth, I would think the density has to be more than 1.5 times that of Earth (without accounting for differences in depth of the atmospheres).
 
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