Titration of a weak base w/ a strong acid

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the titration of a weak base (NaF) with a strong acid (HI), specifically focusing on determining the pH at the equivalence point. Participants explore the calculations involved and the underlying chemical principles, including equilibrium expressions and the behavior of ions in solution.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the initial setup for calculating the pH at the equivalence point, noting the dissociation of NaF and HI, and the formation of HF.
  • Another participant points out a mathematical error in the volume calculation of HI added, suggesting that the volumes should be similar due to the comparable concentrations of NaF and HI.
  • After correcting the calculations, the participant finds a pH of 3.39 but questions its validity against a provided multiple-choice answer of 2.5.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of understanding the process rather than just obtaining the correct answer, discussing the nature of the solution at the equivalence point.
  • There is a clarification regarding the role of ions in the solution, with a focus on the reaction between H+ and F- to form HF.
  • One participant acknowledges a mistake in their final pH calculation, realizing that the correct pH should be lower than previously stated.
  • Another participant confirms that the revised pH calculation appears correct after the adjustments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and the implications of the equivalence point, with some agreeing on the importance of the process while others focus on the numerical outcomes. The discussion includes corrections and refinements, but no consensus is reached on the final pH value or the interpretation of the equivalence point.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential errors in calculations and assumptions about the behavior of ions in solution. The discussion highlights the complexity of determining pH at the equivalence point, particularly in relation to the concentrations of species present.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in chemistry, particularly those studying acid-base titrations and equilibrium concepts, may find this discussion relevant.

Chris L
Messages
14
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Determine the pH at the equivalence point after 20.00mL of a 3.75 M NaF(aq) solution is titrated with 3.25 M HI(aq)

Homework Equations



##k_a = \frac{[A^-][H^+]}{[HA]}##

The Attempt at a Solution



The first thing I noted was that

NaF ##\rightarrow## Na+(aq) + F-(aq)

since most sodium compounds dissolve almost completely, and

HI ##\rightarrow## H+(aq) + I-(aq)

since hydroiodic acid is strong. From there, the equilibrium expression

HF ##\rightleftharpoons## H+(aq) + F-(aq)

came to mind. Since the volume of HI(aq) added is one molar equivalent, and there are

## 0.02 L (3.75 \frac{mol}{L}) = 0.075 mol## of NaF(aq) in solution, I figured the volume of HI(aq) added must be ##\frac{0.075 mol}{3.25 \frac{mol}{L}} = 0.0231 L##. The total volume is then ##0.02 L + 0.0231 L = 0.0431 L##.

From the total volume, I found the new H+(aq) and F-(aq) concentrations to be ##\frac{0.075 mol}{0.0431 L} = 1.74 M##; from my understanding, the initial concentrations of both of these entities should be the same because exactly 1 molar equivalence is being added and they are in a 1:1 ratio with each other.

Next, I created an ICE table with this information, along with the provided ##k_a## = 6.6 x 10-4 (I'm new to LaTeX so I put it inside a matrix b/c there's documentation for them in the FAQ, apologies):

##
\begin{pmatrix}
? & HF & H^+ & F^-\\
I & 0 & 1.74 & 1.74\\
C & +x & -x & -x\\
E & x & 1.74 - x & 1.74 - x
\end{pmatrix}
##

Plugging this information into the expression for ##k_a##,

##6.6*10^{-4} = \frac{(1.74 - x)^2}{x}##

which yields ##x = 1.7064## and so ##[H^+] = 1.74 - 1.7064 = 0.0336 M##.

Finally, ##pH = -log_{10}(0.0336) = 3.39##, which seems like a somewhat reasonable answer given the strength of the acid being added, but I still feel like there are errors in my methodology. I would be very thankful if anyone could point out my mistakes, or just tell me if everything looks okay!
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Chris L said:
##\frac{0.075 mol}{3.25 \frac{mol}{L}} = 0.231 L##

Check your math.

Note that it is obvious something is wrong - concentrations of both NaF and HI are very similar, there is no reason for tenfold difference in volumes, they have to be very similar.
 
Borek said:
Check your math.

Note that it is obvious something is wrong - concentrations of both NaF and HI are very similar, there is no reason for tenfold difference in volumes, they have to be very similar.

Fixed the original post, I really have to get new batteries for my TI-89...I make too many mistakes with the windows calculator. Thanks for the response!

After fixing the numbers, the pH is now 3.39, although the highest pH given in the answers was 2.5 (it was multiple choice). The professor could just be trolling because it said "pick the closest value" but I think it's more likely that I made a second mistake.
 
Your previous answer was much closer to the correct one.

Notre that technically at equivalence point you have just HF solution of the known concentration...
 
Borek said:
Your previous answer was much closer to the correct one.

Notre that technically at equivalence point you have just HF solution of the known concentration...

I'm more concerned with the correct process than the right answer, my new answer being farther from the correct one doesn't bother me because I've fixed an error.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the second statement; in the solution there exists Na+, H+, F-, and I-. From what I understand, the sodium and iodine ions shouldn't affect the pH, and the H+ and F- ions will form a certain concentration of HF, according to its ##k_a##. Is it incorrect to say that the equivalence point is when the moles of HI added is equal to the moles of NaF in the original solution?
 
Chris L said:
in the solution there exists Na+, H+, F-, and I-.

Not exactly. You add strong acid to protonate a weak base, and the reaction that takes place during titration is

H+ + F- -> HF

You don't add the acid to have free ions in the solution, you add it for the reaction to take place.

From what I understand, the sodium and iodine ions shouldn't affect the pH

Correct. (They do change pH, but that's another story).

and the H+ and F- ions will form a certain concentration of HF, according to its ##k_a##. Is it incorrect to say that the equivalence point is when the moles of HI added is equal to the moles of NaF in the original solution?

Compare the numbers you got - out of 1.74 M of F- present in the solution around 1.7M is protonated (even if the final answer is incorrect, orders of magnitude are OK). That means you have mostly HF, some of that dissociated, not partially protonated F-.

Now that I looked at your answer - minus log of 0.03 must be below 2 (minus log of 0.01 is 2, and we are talking about the number that is slightly higher than 0.01, so the minus log must be lower than 2). Check the final step.
 
Oh wow, I made another calculator mistake, -log10(0.0336) isn't 3.39, it's 1.474. Should that be the correct answer then?
 
Looks OK now.
 
Thank you for all of your help! I'm new to PF, is there a way I can give you a thumbs up or points or something?
 
  • #10
No need for that, your "thank you" is enough :biggrin:
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
10K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
4
Views
4K