Topology Munkres Chapter 1 exercise 2 e- Set theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around exercise 2e from "Topology" by J. Munkres, specifically analyzing the validity of the statement $A-(A-B)=B$ for arbitrary sets A and B. Participants explore implications of set operations and the conditions under which certain equalities or inclusions hold.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that for sets A={1,2,3,4,5,7} and B={1,3,5,9}, the computation shows $A-(A-B)$ results in {1,3,5}, which does not equal B, thus the statement $A-(A-B)=B$ is false.
  • Others note that while $A-(A-B)=B$ is not true, it is valid that $A-(A-B) \subset B$.
  • A participant provides a proof attempting to show that if x is in $A-(A-B)$, then x must also be in B, reinforcing the inclusion relationship.
  • Another participant elaborates on the proof, breaking down the logical steps to demonstrate that $A-(A-B)$ can be expressed as $A \cap B$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the statement $A-(A-B)=B$ is false, but there is a discussion on the implications of the inclusion $A-(A-B) \subset B$. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific examples to illustrate their points, and there are assumptions about the nature of the sets being discussed. The proofs presented depend on the definitions of set operations and logical reasoning, which may not be universally accepted without further clarification.

cbarker1
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Dear Everyone
I am having some difficulties on exercise 2e from Topology 2nd ed by J. Munkres . Here are the directions:
determine which of the following states are true for all sets [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]A, [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]B, [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]C, and [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]D. If a double implication fails, determine whether one or the other one of the possible implication holds. If an equality fails, determine whether the statement becomes true if the "equal" symbol is replaced by one or the other of the inclusion symbols [FONT=MathJax_Main]⊂or [FONT=MathJax_Main]⊃.e.) $A-(A-B)=B$

My work:
Let A={1,2,3,4,5,7} and B={1,3,5,9}
A-B={2,4,7}
A-(A-B)=A-{2,4,7}={1,3,5,9}= B?

Thanks
Cbarker1
 
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Cbarker1 said:
Dear Everyone
I am having some difficulties on exercise 2e from Topology 2nd ed by J. Munkres . Here are the directions:
determine which of the following states are true for all sets [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]A, [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]B, [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]C, and [FONT=MathJax_Math-italic]D. If a double implication fails, determine whether one or the other one of the possible implication holds. If an equality fails, determine whether the statement becomes true if the "equal" symbol is replaced by one or the other of the inclusion symbols [FONT=MathJax_Main]⊂or [FONT=MathJax_Main]⊃.e.) $A-(A-B)=B$

My work:
Let A={1,2,3,4,5,7} and B={1,3,5,9}
A-B={2,4,7}
A-(A-B)=A-{2,4,7}={1,3,5,9}= B?

Thanks
Cbarker1
If A={1,2,3,4,5,7} and B={1,3,5,9} then
A-B={2,4,7}
A-(A-B)=A-{2,4,7}={1,2,3,4,5,7}-{2,4,7}={1,3,5}.

Notice that A-(A-B) is contained in B, but it is not the whole of B because it does not include 9.

That shows that the statement $A-(A-B)=B$ is not true. However, it is true that $A-(A-B)\subset B$. Can you prove that?
 
Opalg said:
If A={1,2,3,4,5,7} and B={1,3,5,9} then
A-B={2,4,7}
A-(A-B)=A-{2,4,7}={1,2,3,4,5,7}-{2,4,7}={1,3,5}.

Notice that A-(A-B) is contained in B, but it is not the whole of B because it does not include 9.

That shows that the statement $A-(A-B)=B$ is not true. However, it is true that $A-(A-B)\subset B$. Can you prove that?

Proof: Suppose x is an arbitrary element in $A-(A-B)$. Then $x\in A$ and $x \notin(A-B)$. So $x\in A$ and $x\notin A$ and $x\in B$. Thus $x\in B$ because an element $x$ can't be both in A and not in A. QED
 
Cbarker1 said:
Proof: Suppose x is an arbitrary element in $A-(A-B)$. Then $x\in A$ and $x \notin(A-B)$. So $x\in A$ and $x\notin A$ and $x\in B$.
The fact that $x\in A-B$ means that $x\in A$ and $x\notin B$. The negation of that, i.e., $x\notin A-B$, means that $x\notin A$ or $x\in B$. Thus, writing $\land$ for "and" and $\lor$ for "or", $x\in A-(A-B)$ means
$$
\begin{align}
x\in A\land (x\notin A\lor x\in B)&\iff (x\in A\land x\notin A)\lor (x\in A\land x\in B)\\
&\iff x\in A\land x\in B\\
&\implies x\in B
\end{align}
$$
In particular, we deduced that $A-(A-B)=A\cap B$.
 

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