Understanding the or in Set Theory

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a statement from set theory regarding the implications of subset relationships. The original poster examines whether the expression "A ⊂ B or A ⊂ C" is equivalent to "A ⊂ (B ∪ C)" and explores the truth of this double implication.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the implications of the statement, noting that the direction from left to right seems valid, while the reverse raises questions. They reflect on the meaning of "or" in this context and consider counterexamples that challenge their understanding.

Discussion Status

Participants have provided insights into the validity of the implications, with some suggesting that the original poster's confusion may stem from a misunderstanding of the logical structure rather than the meaning of "or." Counterexamples have been mentioned to illustrate the points being discussed, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific sets and their relationships, highlighting the need for careful consideration of definitions and logical implications in set theory. There is an acknowledgment of the original poster's feelings of confusion and the informal tone of their response to feedback.

A.MHF
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Homework Statement


So I was doing this problem in Munkres's Topology book:

Determine whether the statement is true or false, If a double implication fails, determine whether one or the other of the possible implications holds:

A ⊂ B or A ⊂ C ⇔ A ⊂ ( B ∪ C )

Homework Equations


-

The Attempt at a Solution


I know that the ⇒ direction is true because (x∈A→x∈B or x∈A→x∈C)⇒(x∈A→(x∈B or x∈C))
For the other direction, I thought at first that it's true, but I checked some online answers and what I found is it's false. I thought it's true because what I had in mind is the word "or" stands for "either A is a subset of B, or A is a subset of C, or both". And if A is a subset of the union of B and C, then it's implied that A is a subset of at least one of them. What am I getting wrong?

This is the answer that I found online:

If the LHS statement is true then for each
latex.png
we have that
latex.png
and so
latex.png
, i.e.
latex.png
. The other direction is not correct though. Consider the sets
latex.png
then
latex.png
but it is not true that
latex.png
.
 
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A.MHF said:

Homework Statement


So I was doing this problem in Munkres's Topology book:

Determine whether the statement is true or false, If a double implication fails, determine whether one or the other of the possible implications holds:

A ⊂ B or A ⊂ C ⇔ A ⊂ ( B ∪ C )

Homework Equations


-

The Attempt at a Solution


I know that the ⇒ direction is true because (x∈A→x∈B or x∈A→x∈C)⇒(x∈A→(x∈B or x∈C))
For the other direction, I thought at first that it's true, but I checked some online answers and what I found is it's false. I thought it's true because what I had in mind is the word "or" stands for "either A is a subset of B, or A is a subset of C, or both". And if A is a subset of the union of B and C, then it's implied that A is a subset of at least one of them. What am I getting wrong?

This is the answer that I found online:

If the LHS statement is true then for each
latex.png
we have that
latex.png
and so
latex.png
, i.e.
latex.png
. The other direction is not correct though. Consider the sets
latex.png
then
latex.png
but it is not true that
latex.png
.
The example shows that this is wrong: "And if A is a subset of the union of B and C, then it's implied that A is a subset of at least one of them."
A={1,3}⊂ B∪C={1,2,3,4}, but clearly A is not a subset of either B or C.

venn.jpg
 
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A.MHF said:

Homework Statement


So I was doing this problem in Munkres's Topology book:

Determine whether the statement is true or false, If a double implication fails, determine whether one or the other of the possible implications holds:

A ⊂ B or A ⊂ C ⇔ A ⊂ ( B ∪ C )

Homework Equations


-

The Attempt at a Solution


I know that the ⇒ direction is true because (x∈A→x∈B or x∈A→x∈C)⇒(x∈A→(x∈B or x∈C))
For the other direction, I thought at first that it's true, but I checked some online answers and what I found is it's false. I thought it's true because what I had in mind is the word "or" stands for "either A is a subset of B, or A is a subset of C, or both". And if A is a subset of the union of B and C, then it's implied that A is a subset of at least one of them. What am I getting wrong?
Your problem isn't in misunderstanding of the word "or" (as implied by your thread title). The counterexample given below clearly shows that A can be contained in ##B \cup C## without A being a subset of either of the other sets.

Note that in the example, one element of A is contained in B, and the other element of A is contained in C, but A is not a subset of either B or C.
A.MHF said:
This is the answer that I found online:

If the LHS statement is true then for each
latex.png
we have that
latex.png
and so
latex.png
, i.e.
latex.png
. The other direction is not correct though. Consider the sets
latex.png
then
latex.png
but it is not true that
latex.png
.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: A.MHF
Oh, I don't how I missed that, feel stupid for asking haha.
Thanks.
 

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