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Train up a child in the way he should go

  1. May 4, 2010 #1
  2. jcsd
  3. May 4, 2010 #2
  4. May 4, 2010 #3
    I like how they incorrectly describe evolution, then say that's not what they believe.
    That's like someone saying "I don't believe 2+2=5, so I think math is false". Well math doesn't say 2+2=5, so it's good that you don't believe that.
     
  5. May 4, 2010 #4
    Yup, I get into arguements with my friends and even on here all the time about this ********. These answer in genesis people are going to get my foot up their %@#.

    I hate how they try to dumb it down and make it 'funny' like to a child so they would believe it. For instance:
    Does your grandmother look like that? (NOOOO laughter) Well then! We don't believe any of the afforementioned stuff because the bible says... etc. etc.

    If you go onto answersingenesis.com and read some of the questions from children which get answered you can see how they try to pit it as real 'scientist' (creationist scientist) against the evil no fear for God scientists (everyone else) and they do so in a way that you would expect to be presented for children to understand and 'comprehend'... making them feel 'smart' that they could come to the same conclusion. (You know like those childhood books???)

    I truly hope these people die a horrible death. There is no excuse for the guy preaching the bull to the parents allowing their children to be indoctrinated by the bull.


    EDIT: Just continued watchign it. THEY EVEN MADE A DAMN CHILDRENS SONG TO GET INTO THEIR HEADS THAT DINOSAURS AND HUMANS CO-EXISTED. I feel like the muslims should get ahold of their personal information and post it on the internet, I'd gladly pay them a visit.
     
  6. May 4, 2010 #5

    Borg

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    Not overly surprising. I've talked to a few people like them in the past - it's painful. They build walls around their arguments using the bible as their version of a scientific textbook. It helps if you've read the bible and can use quotes out of it to refute the logic that they use to build their defenses. Quoting from scientific articles usually doesn't get you very far unless you can lead them down a path that they can't talk their way out of (with their bible logic).
     
  7. May 4, 2010 #6
    I should point out that I don't see why children 3-5 yrs. old need to believe anything about the origin of the diversity of life. That seems a little advanced for a pre-K student. So for that reason, I think the interviewer's question, "Do you believe in evolution?" is an unfortunate expedient when aimed at kids that age. I know that it was the quickest way to trigger the response, showing how they had just been effectively "thought reformed." But still.

    My view is that you should teach your kids to think clearly and critically, and to love learning. Provide them with all the resources for learning you can. With some luck, things will turn out well.

    Ironically, in the fundamentalist culture I grew up in, what I just described is their idea of "brainwashing." That says a lot about them.
     
  8. May 4, 2010 #7
    This is painful to watch.

    But. I think we must not be too hypocritical. I'm sure it happens the other way around too. If someone who absolutely does not believe that the bible is right (I think that would include all of us here) has kids or ever gets kids, I'm sure they are going to tell them that evolution is the truth, and that the bible is not an accurate representation of what happened. The same goes for teachers in most schools. How is that so much different then what these people are doing?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't support it, and I do believe in evolution. But these people are not joking or whatever: they actually do believe that the bible is correct. Can we blame them for wanting to teach their kids what they think is correct?
    I'm sure that I would be furious if something like this would be 'banned' if I believed so strongly in the bible!

    These people cannot convince us that the bible is correct, because we can more or less prove that it isn't using scientific data. The other way around, we cannot convince those people that we are correct, simply because they refuse to believe it. Of course, refusing to believe something is not on the same level as having scientific evidence, but that's irrelevant really. The fact is that these people believe what they believe and we can't do much about that anymore... I think it's a difficult situation.
     
  9. May 4, 2010 #8

    cronxeh

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    Well we can't have everyone with a college degree. We need blue collar workers who have nothing and aspire to nothing but bread and water and work hard, fear jesus zombie, and look forward to their death, at which point they will likely go to a magic place where all their dreams will come true.

    Can you imagine if everyone in United States had a college degree by age 21? And a Masters by age 22, and a PhD by age 25? Insanity!
     
  10. May 4, 2010 #9
    It's different because Bible is a religious text. Teach Bible in religious study classes for all I care, just don't bring for biology.
     
  11. May 5, 2010 #10

    Borek

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    There are moments when I feel ashamed of being a human.
     
  12. May 5, 2010 #11

    BobG

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    I'll say! People with PhD's would be working at MacDonald's for minimum wage.
     
  13. May 5, 2010 #12

    Ivan Seeking

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    Imo, it is important to understand that we are seeing a dumbing down of religion along with most everything else. This is, imo, no worse than some of the political cable "news" and radio chatter - just a different brand of bs.

    What would you have if Glenn Beck taught kindergarten? See link above.
     
  14. May 5, 2010 #13
    McDonald's friend. Mc. :rofl:

    As well people with higher education already DO work at McDonald's, weird eh?? (I've worked with them before). Not a PhD mind you but they were applying to Med School.
     
  15. May 5, 2010 #14
    Wanna make a direct comparisson? Besides, how is this a dumbing down of religion? What's in the video has been part of the religion for a few thousand years now. You can hardly consider that recent dumbing down along with most everything else.

    As for everything else being 'dumbed' down, would you care to elaborate? Maybe substantiate the claim a bit more???
     
  16. May 5, 2010 #15
    Um, what about the RH factor in most people's blood which is a direct link to the Rhesus monkey?
     
  17. May 5, 2010 #16
    What is this non-sense?
     
  18. May 6, 2010 #17
    Does anyone else think this is child abuse? I'm not simply referring to teaching children things that aren't true. Even well-meaning parents do that by mistake, without causing lifelong harm to their kids. I'm referring to teaching your kids that knowledge comes from authority, and blunting their natural inclination to explore and learn in order to make sure they don't encounter anything that contradicts that authority. I don't see anything "well-meaning" in that. People should just flat out know better. Sincerity of belief, imo, is not an excuse here. And to make the point clearer, I don't think it would be substantially better if Ken Ham was presenting scientifically accurate information in this way instead of his Answers In Genesis nonsense. Teaching children that they must believe in evolution because God (as He has revealed Himself to Baptists) says so would still be taking a file to the sharp edges of their little minds.

    I'm not suggesting that it be made illegal to take your kid to church with you, and I am aware that there are plenty of moderate churches (but apparently not enough) that do not resort to the extremes seen here. There are other ways to discourage the disgusting practice in that video besides legislation, which is too ham-handed and would only generate sympathy for the "martyred" pious parents. Instead, people can promote a general recognition that this kind of mistreatment of children, while legal, is not OK. Children are in the care of their parents. They are not the property of their parents, to do with as they please. Nor are children's thoughts, beliefs, and opinions the personal property of their parents. While there is no question that in the course of raising your children, you will pass on your knowledge and values to them, you do not get to use just any method to make sure your values and beliefs are the only ones that stick.
     
  19. May 7, 2010 #18
    Yes I can...I call it India.. soon enough anyhow..

    What would happen? 5th graders would be doing advanced calculus, there would be no jobs at mcdonalds because the level of society would raise to a point where tasks like that could be fully automated.

    And hopefully we as a society would be at a new level of enlightenment.

    As far as the heavens gate seminar, unfortunately I'm very familiar with these kinds of things because I have people in my family like this. Logic and common sense are just not obstacles to thier steadfast beliefs. Cromagnum man could walk up and smack them in the face, and they would call it god's will.

    Some people need that crutch. I think for some people it's the only thing holding them together and preventing them from snapping.

    accepting things like coincidence, and randomness, and death being cause and effect, not god's will is simply beyond some people's coping mechanisms.

    IMHO God serves a greater purpose, because I believe many of those bible thumpers would be thieves, murders, and masochists without religion to hold them to a standard.

    Food for thought...
     
  20. May 7, 2010 #19
    Doesn't surprise me at all. Hey did your parents ever teach you things like these?

    "You can do with your life what you want."
    "Dress warmly or you'll get sick."
    "Don't eat chocolate, eat an apple instead, it's bad for your teeth."

    And if they did, would they get defensive and offended when another person just waltzed in saying 'Ma'am, why are you feeding your children to be ignorant, I've got statistics right here which transparently show that you have no control over what you grow up to be and very few children can realize their childhood dreams, why are you lying to your children like that and denying scientific fact? It's been established long ago that apples are worse for your teeth than chocolate, though chocolate makes you fatter."

    Different things to lie about, same principle by which they lie, people have a hard time shaking things they've accepted to be true in childhood because it was all around them. Hell, I know some myths I could've put here that could give me an infraction for stating them, regardless if it's true or not, people are scared, not scared of the truth, not scared of lies, but scared of being exposed to the possibility that some things they learnt as a child might not be true at all. And if some-one claims the inverse, people will get scared, and if that person has a good argument or not is pretty irrelevant and they fail to see the difference.

    Edit, in the interest of making fun of interesting ignorance:

    mentor edit: inappropriate link deleted
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2010
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