Transforming a 4-vector integration measure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation of a four-vector integration measure into a three-vector notation, specifically in the context of a particular integral involving a four-momentum vector. Participants explore the implications of this transformation, the conditions under which it can be performed, and the mathematical relationships involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation of a four-vector integration measure and seeks to express it in three-vector notation, questioning the spherical symmetry of the measure.
  • Another participant points out that transforming the integral from four-space to three-space generally requires a constraint, such as the mass-shell condition (k² = m²).
  • Several participants note the importance of clearly distinguishing between components of the four-vector, indicating confusion over the notation used.
  • A participant suggests that a negative imaginary part can be assigned to the mass to facilitate the transformation.
  • One participant confirms the correct expression of the four-vector measure in terms of energy and momentum, stating that d⁴k = dE d³p is accurate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the ability to transform the integral without constraints, as some participants argue that such a transformation is not generally valid without specific conditions, while others provide alternative approaches or confirm certain aspects of the transformation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of spherical symmetry and the conditions required for transforming the integration measure. The discussion includes multiple interpretations of the mathematical relationships involved.

Sekonda
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Hello,

I have a particular derivation of a four-vector integration measure, basically changing the measure to some related more useful measure - but I'd like to do this in 3-vector notation. Here it is, from the integral:

[tex]-i\lambda\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{d^4k}{(2\pi)^4}\frac{i}{k^2-m^2}[/tex]

where k is the four vector: [tex]k=(E,\mathbf{p})[/tex]

We transform the integration measure like so:

[tex]d^3k=4\pi k^{2}dk\: ,\: \frac{dk^2}{dk}=2k\: ,\: d^3k=2\pi kdk^2[/tex]

Where the first step is done due to spherical symmetry (can anyone explain why this is spherically symmetric? I'm guessing the 'k' is isotropic in some sense?)

Anyway we attain that the integration measure is:

[tex]\frac{d^4k}{(2\pi)^4}=\frac{k^2dk^2}{16\pi^2}[/tex]

My main question is how to change this derivation to a 3-vector one? I'm guess I pretty much subsitute 'k' for 'p' but I'm not sure.


Thanks,
SK
 
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too many identical k's w/o index, vector notation
 
Sorry, but I did not quite get what you want to do. You want to turn the given integral in 4-space to an integral in 3-space? Well, you cannot do it in general, unless you have a constrain (like the "mass shell": k2 = m2) . If you do, please let me know so I can tell you what to do in this case. About the spherical symmetry question, the integrand is a function of k2 = k02 - k2 i.e. it depents only of the magnitude of k and not it's direction.
 
d4k=dk0d3k,also k2=k02-k2
 
andrien said:
also k2=k02-k2
again too many k's w/o index ;-)

k2=k02-k2 → 2k2=k02

but this is definitely NOT what you mean ...
 
tom.stoer said:
again too many k's w/o index ;-)

k2=k02-k2 → 2k2=k02

but this is definitely NOT what you mean ...

ahh yes,so
k2=k02-[itex]k^2[/itex]
 
but this is what cosmic dust says: you cannot do that in general w/o assuming that there is a constraint; and in the above mentioned integral there isn't such a constraint, so the mass-shell condition does not apply.
 
one can use it by simply giving a negative imaginary part to mass,if you wish.
 
What I wanted to do was just take this out of 4 vector notation, how would I express this with a scalar part and a vector part.

I think if k is a four vector then:

[tex]d^4k=dEd^3\mathbf{p} \: ,\: k=(E,\mathbf{p})[/tex],

is this right? If so I just want to change the derivation I stated intially but using the integration measure on the RHS above this line.

Thanks,
SK
 
  • #10
yes, that's correct
 

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