Trim and roll (or heel) for submersibles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the concepts of trim, roll, and heel in the context of submersibles, particularly regarding buoyancy changes and stability when submerged or on the surface. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these terms as they relate to the behavior of submarines in water.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe trim, roll, and heel as related to the orientation of a submersible in three axes: pitch, roll, and yaw.
  • It is noted that heel can affect the center of buoyancy when a submarine is on the surface, potentially contributing to stability.
  • There is a distinction made that the effects of heel on buoyancy do not apply when the submarine is submerged, as the hull is surrounded by water.
  • One participant suggests that heel can lead to a shift in the center of buoyancy that opposes further heel, but only when the submarine is on the surface.
  • Another participant mentions that a submerged submarine should maintain a positive "righting moment" that helps return it to a vertical position when it heels, which increases with heel angle to a certain extent.
  • Active control over ballast is discussed as a means for submarines to adjust weight and buoyancy to achieve a level flying condition, similar to trimming an aircraft.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the effects of heel on buoyancy and stability, particularly distinguishing between surface and submerged conditions. There is no consensus on the implications of heel and its management in different states of submersion.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of trim, roll, and heel may not be universally agreed upon, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of buoyancy dynamics in different conditions.

ENGBIO
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Hey guys,

Im studying submarines and I was wondering when discussing buoyancy changes for submersibles what is meant by "changes in trim and roll or heel". What is trim/roll/heel? How should I picture it?

Thank you!
 
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ENGBIO said:
Hey guys,

Im studying submarines and I was wondering when discussing buoyancy changes for submersibles what is meant by "changes in trim and roll or heel". What is trim/roll/heel? How should I picture it?

Thank you!

It has to do with whether the sub sits level or tilts in one of the three possible axis. I usually hear the three described as pitch, roll, and yaw.

Cars go down the highway in the direction the wheels point (unless they are skidding.) Boats and airplanes do not necessarily move the same way the nose points.
 
anorlunda said:
It has to do with whether the sub sits level or tilts in one of the three possible axis. I usually hear the three described as pitch, roll, and yaw.

Cars go down the highway in the direction the wheels point (unless they are skidding.) Boats and airplanes do not necessarily move the same way the nose points.
Yes, also I think heel is roll induced by a sail or by cornering force.
Yaw is rotation about a vertical axis, as when steering.
 
When a submarine is on the surface heel can cause the centre of buoyancy to change in a way that reduces heel, eg contributing to stability. This doesn't happen when the submarine is submerged because the hull is surrounded by water.
 
CWatters said:
When a submarine is on the surface heel can cause the centre of buoyancy to change in a way that reduces heel, eg contributing to stability. This doesn't happen when the submarine is submerged because the hull is surrounded by water.

Are you saying that heel can lead to a shift in the center of buoyancy that opposes further heel?
 
Yes. But only when on the surface.
 
Thanks, just making sure I understood your meaning.

So for the OP: the submerged boat (hopefully) still has a positive "righting moment" that tends to return the boat to vertical when the boat heels and increases (to a point) with heel angle. However, as CWatters points out, a boat on the surface can gain significant extra righting moment via buoyancy (through the shape of its hull).

Since a sub also has active control over its ballast, it can also adjust its weight/buoyancy (both total amount and the way it is distributed around the boat) to bring the boat "into trim," i.e., to a level flying condition (without additional control inputs from the planes). This is kind of like trimming an aircraft so that it flies straight and level.
 

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