Trying to prove that Impulse = change in momentum

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the relationship between impulse and change in momentum, specifically exploring the assumptions and equations involved in this proof. The subject area is primarily focused on classical mechanics, particularly the concepts of impulse and momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the relationship using basic equations of motion and questions the validity of their assumptions regarding mass and the nature of the equations (instantaneous vs. average).
  • Some participants suggest incorporating mass into the derivative form of the equations and clarify the notation used for impulse.
  • Others express confusion about the treatment of acceleration and whether to use derivatives or difference quotients in their reasoning.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of assuming constant mass versus variable mass in different contexts.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants exploring various interpretations of the equations and assumptions. Some guidance has been provided regarding the use of derivatives and the conditions under which mass can be considered constant, but there is no explicit consensus on the assumptions or the initial equations to use for the proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of the definitions and assumptions related to impulse and momentum, particularly in scenarios where mass may change, such as in rocket motion. There is uncertainty about the appropriateness of the equations derived from the original poster's conceptual physics source.

GRB 080319B
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Homework Statement



I was trying to prove that Impulse = change in momentum. I end up proving it, but I'm not sure if the two assumptions I made are true. I also am not sure if my initial equations are completely true (I got them from a conceptual physics book which isn't heavy on equations themselves: I'm not sure if the equations they are using are instantaneous or average). I apologize for the notation; I don't know how to use latex. Thank you.

Homework Equations



I=Ft
F=ma
a=(delta v/ delta t)
p=mv

The Attempt at a Solution



I=Ft
I=(ma)t
I=m(delta v/ delta t)t
I=m(delta v) Here I made an assumption that the time in the initial impulse function was equivalent to the delta time for the velocity in order to cancel the two to get velocity by itself.
I=m(v1 - v0) The 1s and 0s signify final and initial values respectively.
I=m((p1/m1) - (p0/m0))
I=m(1/m)(p1 - p0) Here I made an assumption that the initial and final masses were equivalent to each other and to the mass from the 2nd law substitution I performed earlier in order to cancel the two to get the momentum by itself.
I=(p1 - p0)
I= delta p
 
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you should include mass into your derivative because somethimes mass makes the different so J = d(mv)/dt ...so mv=p ...then J = d(p)/dt...
 


What notation do you mean by J, do you mean joules? Also, do these equations involve derivatives or just difference quotients? My first assumption was based on treating the acceleration as delta v / delta t, not dv/dt. However, you seem to be using the derivative, which leaves me in a quandary: I want to end up with delta p instead of a derivative, but can't seem to do so. Is acceleration treated as instantaneous, and are the other parts right?
 
Last edited:


GRB 080319B said:
What notation do you mean by J, do you mean joules?

J is sometimes used to represent impulse.
 


On wikipedia, gives the equation as I = F(delta t) = m(delta v) = delta p , assuming that the mass is constant. That's where become confused, because I'm not sure if I can assume that the mass doesn't change according to my work above. Should the mass from the 2nd law and the mass of the momentum be equivalent?
 


The 'universal' definition that you can use for billiard balls going at everyday speeds, and also for something like a rocket (mass changes as fuel burns) and also for photons (which have zero mass but do have momentum) and also for relativity, is:

Impulse = Fdt = dp

(since F = dp/dt)

Strictly speaking, this is the 'correct' form of Newton's 2nd Law, F = ma is what you get if the mass is constant.

As you say, if you're dealing with everyday objects, you can assume that the mass is constant.

It's not clear from the problem statement which equations you're supposed to start with to "prove" this.
 

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