Typing with the Ladies: A High School Adventure

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We're going to brine ours this year, but my wife wants to take charge and roast it. I prefer smoked turkey, but she liked the looks of the method he used on the "Good Eats/Holiday Treats" DVD (thanks again Zz!) so my smoker will stay cold and I will get part of that day to hunt.

I have had deep-fried turkey several times - it seemed to be a favorite with the denizens that inhabited the GA-based company that I did technical consultations for about 15 years ago. Get invited to a BBQ? If it's a big crowd, expect that someone will have set up a gas burner and a huge pot for fried turkey. I never warmed up to the flavor. My hickory-smoked turkeys would kick their a** and my wife's roasted turkeys with aromatic herbs, garlic, and onions in the body cavity were better, too. :-p

Maybe the fascination with fried turkeys comes from the chance to play with propane gas, big burners, and gallons of extremely hot and highly flammable oil. If a couple of kids come careening around the corner of the house playing tag and knock over my charcoal smoker, it could leave us with a really ashy bird that might be hard to salvage, but we won't have to call 911 to get the ankle-biters flown to a burn unit.
 
turbo-1 said:
I have had deep-fried turkey several times - it seemed to be a favorite with the denizens that inhabited the GA-based company that I did technical consultations for about 15 years ago. Get invited to a BBQ? If it's a big crowd, expect that someone will have set up a gas burner and a huge pot for fried turkey. I never warmed up to the flavor. My hickory-smoked turkeys would kick their a** and my wife's roasted turkeys with aromatic herbs, garlic, and onions in the body cavity were better, too. :-p
A few years back, I was invited over to the home of friends for Thanksgiving, and having a HUGE family to feed (they had tables set up in the living room, dining room, kitchen, AND basement rec room to accommodate all the people...what fun!), they cooked three turkeys, and decided to do each one differently, so you could compare each method of cooking side-by-side (and it just wasn't possible to cook three turkeys in one oven anyway, and kept some of the people outside tending to the smoker and deep fryer so the house was a little less overcrowded during the cooking). Of the traditional oven-roasted, deep-fried, and smoked turkeys, the smoked was my absolute favorite for flavor and moistness. The deep-fried one was second...not so much flavor, but the cooking method protected it from being over-cooked and dried out. The oven-roasted one was the worst, though, the cook in charge of the turkey roasting in that family is prone to drying it out, so it could have been considerably better had it been seasoned a bit more and not dried out, so could have competed with the deep-fried one easily enough, but I've NEVER had a roast turkey as good as that smoked one. :approve: That was delicious!

Maybe the fascination with fried turkeys comes from the chance to play with propane gas, big burners, and gallons of extremely hot and highly flammable oil. If a couple of kids come careening around the corner of the house playing tag and knock over my charcoal smoker, it could leave us with a really ashy bird that might be hard to salvage, but we won't have to call 911 to get the ankle-biters flown to a burn unit.

No kidding! Aside from the burns from splattering oil, a lot of people burn their whole house down with those things! Do NOT use them on a wooden deck, or probably within 20 feet of the house or anything else flammable. It seems the most dangerous moment is when that raw, wet turkey is lowered into the oil and the splatter ignites on the flame. They should be sold with a fire extinguisher included.
 
Your experience parallels mine, Moonie. Hickory-smoked is best, and if the person doing the roasting prepares and cooks the turkey properly (with aromatic herbs, garlic, onions, etc) it will beat out the fried one every time. Frying is fast and keeps the meat moist, but you can pull that off with a roasting pan, too. When smoking or roasting, we always position the bird with the breast meat on the bottom so the fats from the dark meat percolate down into the white meat. Using a properly-sized bird, brining, and controlling temperatures makes roasting a nice bird easy, but flipping them over (breast-down) is a great way to keep the white meat moist. We only use locally-grown birds - none of that commercial stuff that's been injected with salty-MSG-laden "broth". My wife gets one of these commercial birds free from work every Thanksgiving, and we give them away to family.

BTW, I have never brined a turkey before smoking, though I brine my Atlantic salmon and some other meats, and my smoked birds are the juiciest critter you could hope to eat (the smoking rack is positioned over a pan of water, so it is a very steamy heavy hickory smoke). My wife saw Brown's description of the brining process and thinks that she might be able to out-do my smoked turkey with an oven-roasted one. She's already having second thoughts about giving up that nice hickory flavor. When boiling the carcass of a smoked turkey for soup stock, the house smells WONDERFUL.
 
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Smoked turkeys are my usual favorite. But I had a cajun seasoned fried turkey that was absolutely to die for. :!)
 
Evo said:
Smoked turkeys are my usual favorite. But I had a cajun seasoned fried turkey that was absolutely to die for. :!)
In all fairness to the fried-turkey crowd, I may never have had one that was properly prepared. The yahoos that cooked them were more the "Git 'er done!" type, and probably paid more attention to the brand of beer they stocked up on than the preparation of the birds.
 
Will an oven roasted turkey keep more of its flavor and moist if cooked in an oven bag? How about wrapped in aluminum foil? (Leg of lamb wrapped in alum foil then baked slowly is my greatest red meat achievement so far.)
 
The problem with wrapping a turkey in foil is that the skin won't get crispy and brown. If that's not an issue then, yes, you could use foil.
 
One of my aunts was a chef--and her oven cooked was one of the best ---second was a seasoned, marinated smoked
 
I've been doing AB's brined and roasted turkey for years now, ever since I first saw the episode. I've never had a bad result from it yet and it always gets rave reviews from the family. Haven't had a good fried turkey experience yet, but I'm always looking. I just haven't met anybody who does it well yet. Most of the people I know that have done fried turkeys tend not to pay as much attention to frying time as they should.
 
turbo-1 said:
When smoking or roasting, we always position the bird with the breast meat on the bottom so the fats from the dark meat percolate down into the white meat.

I discovered this totally by accident...well, not my accident, but a friend's accident. It was her first time ever cooking a Thanksgiving dinner with her boyfriend (now fiance), and had somehow gotten through her entire upbringing having never seen anyone actually prepare the turkey for roasting (I think she went to a grandparents where it was in the oven before she got there, or maybe really did just pay no attention while it was being prepared at home). Anyway, it made for a lot of humor that day, because her mom was giving her instructions by phone, which is not the easiest way to learn to cook anything. She didn't know there was supposed to be a particular side up, so put the turkey in upside-down. After we were done laughing at the very unattractive result (it definitely didn't look pretty for carving), we discovered that it actually kept the breast meat incredibly juicy and tender. I think if I had to roast more than one turkey for a gathering, I'd probably just cook one small one right-side-up for presentation (everyone likes to see a turkey carved) and do the rest upside-down to be juicier and add to the platters when nobody's looking at those birds (the more I try to juggle cooking, the more likely something will get overcooked, so that would be a really good time to use a trick like that to not have to worry as much).

EnumaElish said:
Will an oven roasted turkey keep more of its flavor and moist if cooked in an oven bag? How about wrapped in aluminum foil? (Leg of lamb wrapped in alum foil then baked slowly is my greatest red meat achievement so far.)

I don't like roasting things in bags, because to me, that's not roasting as much as it is boiling in the oven since everything is sitting right in the juices. It'll keep it moist, but it's just not the same dish to me.

You should cover the pan with a tent of aluminum foil when roasting any poultry (and put the poultry up on a roasting rack so it's not soaking in the water at the bottom...I always pre-season the water at the bottom so once it's had the drippings mixed with it, it's all ready to add some flour to make a quick gravy). This allows it to self-baste and keep the moisture in. Then, about a half hour before the turkey is done, take the foil off and let it finish roasting without the foil so the skin gets browned (be careful when taking the foil off...as soon as you open a corner, the steam trapped inside will escape and you can get a nasty burn if you don't use tongs or a fork or something to help pull up the foil).
 
Enuma, here is how to make a great roast turkey.

Romancing the Bird



The brining starts around 7:00 in this next part





 
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turbo-1 said:
In all fairness to the fried-turkey crowd, I may never have had one that was properly prepared. The yahoos that cooked them were more the "Git 'er done!" type, and probably paid more attention to the brand of beer they stocked up on than the preparation of the birds.

I've never known any other type to fry a turkey either. I always figured that sort of personality contributed to the desire to play with big vats of hot oil over an open fire.
 
How the heck does brining work anyway? If you're soaking your turkey in a high concentration of salt, wouldn't that draw out all the water from the meat and make it drier (not to mention a whole lot saltier)?
 
Moonbear said:
How the heck does brining work anyway? If you're soaking your turkey in a high concentration of salt, wouldn't that draw out all the water from the meat and make it drier (not to mention a whole lot saltier)?
Watch starting at 7:00, there is a scientific explanation. :-p
 
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Evo said:
Watch starting at 7:00, there is a scientific explanation. :-p


So in other words, yes, you are drawing the water out of the meat. :rolleyes: Just once you reach an equilibrium, you'll get exchange of salt between the water and turkey...but you have to dry it out to reach that equilibrium, and if you're just using salt water as a brine, you're accomplishing nothing. :rolleyes: I'm unconvinced. Probably just makes the turkey saltier because of all the salt on the outside, and for those who like salty meat, they think it tastes better. If you're adding seasoning other than salt, that's not brining, that's marinating. I think salt would defeat the purpose. It would seem better to keep the salt concentrations in equilibrium from the start, and put in the other seasonings that aren't naturally in a turkey to let them work their way in.

Though, I still think that all it is really accomplishing is helping people avoid the mistake of putting all their seasoning on top of the skin that never allows it to penetrate the meat (and then gets removed before serving). Rub your seasonings inside the cavity of the bird, and work them under the skin, and you won't have that problem.
 
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He doesn't use plain salt water, he uses seasonings. The flavor does seem to get into the meat this way. A lot of turkeys for sale now are injected with a brine, it does improve the flavor (I like salt), but you're also buying a lot of water.
 
Has anyone tried one of these? I've seen them at the store, but haven't bought one yet. Sounds too good to be true, but their stuffed chicken breasts are incredible, so maybe I will get one, the butter, garlic and herb one sounds yummy.

http://www.jennieo.com/ovenready/default.html
 
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Evo said:
He doesn't use plain salt water, he uses seasonings. The flavor does seem to get into the meat this way. A lot of turkeys for sale now are injected with a brine, it does improve the flavor (I like salt), but you're also buying a lot of water.

Oh, I HATE those. I've gotten chickens like that and after that experience, I read the labels VERY carefully. It doesn't add flavor, it makes them taste...well, just bad.
 
Evo said:
Has anyone tried one of these? I've seen them at the store, but haven't bought one yet. Sounds too good to be true, but their stuffed chicken breasts are incredible, so maybe I will get one, the butter, garlic and herb one sounds yummy.

http://www.jennieo.com/ovenready/default.html

You couldn't pay me to buy something like that. I avoid anything with too much processing. Just give me a plain turkey, and I can season it perfectly well myself, and I know I'm not adding weird preservatives or artificial colors, or who knows what.
 
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jennieo prices :bugeye: Oven Ready Homestyle Whole Turkey 11-13 pounds $57.00 / each

Thats just too costly{5.20 to 4.40 a pound}, I'll spend that much for my whole dinner. I have a turkey farm nearby, lol yep, the city grew up around it. To keep the peace, we all get great deals on fresh turkeys.
I have tried at least 10 different ways to cook it. The best was on a camp out, where we cooked it underground on hot rocks. Of course it was so cold out, that old socks cooked on hot rocks, might of tasted good too.
 
hypatia said:
jennieo prices :bugeye: Oven Ready Homestyle Whole Turkey 11-13 pounds $57.00 / each

Thats just too costly{5.20 to 4.40 a pound}, I'll spend that much for my whole dinner.
Yikes! I didn't even look at the price. That's insane. I could buy brand new bottles of all my seasonings from the most expensive brands and still not pay that much (and of course, the bottles of seasonings last for a lot more than just one turkey). This reminds me of tribdog's adventures with Honey Baked Ham gift certificates (he got a $50 gift certificate, and there wasn't a thing in the store he could order for $50 or less! :bugeye:)...I guess that's the price you pay for not learning how to cook.

I have a turkey farm nearby, lol yep, the city grew up around it. To keep the peace, we all get great deals on fresh turkeys.
Oh, boy, I'm envious! I wish I had known about that when I lived in MI too!

When I lived in NJ, there was a turkey farm with a restaurant. A few years, we went there for Thanksgiving when the rest of the relatives were off to the in-laws and it was just the immediate family for the day. They raised the turkeys right there, and so you got the freshest turkey around...and everything was all-you-can-eat (of course they bring out the fillers first :wink:). Fun place. Everything was served family style, and you sat at long benches, so you'd share a table with a whole bunch of other people in an old farmhouse turned into a restaurant. No reservations, and sometimes the wait could be 3 hours for Thanksgiving. We'd go early, put our names in, then if it was a long wait, would head to the state park down the road and go for a nice walk along the river, then come back and visit the farm (I was bad...I'd pick out turkeys like they were lobsters..."I think I'll have that one"...while wandering around the farm :smile:), and by then, it would be pretty close to our turn to be seated.

I have tried at least 10 different ways to cook it. The best was on a camp out, where we cooked it underground on hot rocks. Of course it was so cold out, that old socks cooked on hot rocks, might of tasted good too.

:smile: I think that's the trick to the deep fried turkey too...everyone has had so many beers while standing around watching it cook and trying to stay warm standing outside that anything tastes good by the time it's done. Everything always tasted better on camp outs. :biggrin:

Actually, as far as I know, fried turkeys originated in the south, and it wasn't so much that they tasted better as that it was just a way to cook the turkey faster than smoking it without heating up the whole house with the oven on.
 
hypatia said:
jennieo prices :bugeye: Oven Ready Homestyle Whole Turkey 11-13 pounds $57.00 / each
YIKES! That's highway robbery! I guess I won't be getting one of those. :bugeye:

I'll probably stick with my usual smoked turkey.

best was on a camp out, where we cooked it underground on hot rocks. Of course it was so cold out, that old socks cooked on hot rocks, might of tasted good too.
That sounds fun! When I was little we used to put a hamburger patty, some sliced onion, potato & carrots, salt & pepper, wrapped in foil. Dig a little hole in the backyard, get some coals burning and cook the foil packets. It was called "boy scout stew" for some reason. It was good and lots of fun to make.

I'll be getting some fresh turkey, pheasant and deer from the guy I work with, but he just gives me a bit for free, he eats the rest of it. I told him this year I want to buy some of the jalapeno deer sausage when he makes it.
 
Anyone got any great side dishes? I had a recipe for this great cranberry pecan thng. I wonder if I can find it.
 
Evo said:
I'll be getting some fresh turkey, pheasant and deer from the guy I work with, but he just gives me a bit for free, he eats the rest of it. I told him this year I want to buy some of the jalapeno deer sausage when he makes it.

Ooh, yum! My sister gets pheasant from one of the guys she works with. He likes to hunt, but his wife refuses to eat it (one of those couples that leaves you wondering how they get along at all), so he ends up having to give away most of the birds. I SO wish I knew someone like that!

I have friends here who hunt, so I'm hinting that I now have a chest freezer if they have too much meat to store (I'll only take a small percentage for providing storage :biggrin:). That sometimes happens with the deer, so I'm hoping. Even better than pheasant, one of my friends hunts chucker...that is a TASTY bird. I just know to accept any and all dinner invitations he offers after he returns from bird hunting, because he's very likely to serve some chucker (last year, he took small pieces and wrapped them in bacon and grilled them as an appetizer...OMG! That was SO delicious!)
 
Evo said:
Anyone got any great side dishes? I had a recipe for this great cranberry pecan thng. I wonder if I can find it.

I should've written down my recipe, because now I'm struggling to remember it. Not that anything was measured, but I'm not sure if I'm forgetting something. I made a baked, curry squash that everyone who had it absolutely loved and was an interesting way to serve squash.

As much as I can remember, I used one acorn squash and one butternut squash, added a medium onion, curry powder (sprinkled the whole surface generously), a good "pour" of heavy cream over it (maybe a half cup?) and a little extra water...the liquid doesn't quite cover the squash. Salt and fresh ground pepper. Cover the dish (I just use a Corningware dish with a cover) and bake at 350 F until the squash is tender (I can't remember how long that takes...about 30-45 min I think). I think that's all that went into it. It was really simple to make and very tasty.
 
Evo said:
What's chucker?

A very tasty bird. :biggrin: I think that's what he goes out to N. Dakota (or S. Dakota...I never remember) to hunt. Unlike birds like pheasant or quail, unless you know someone who hunts, you can't buy chucker. I don't know if there's some reason they can't be farmed, but I've never seen or heard of them except through people who hunt for them.
 
Moonbear said:
I should've written down my recipe, because now I'm struggling to remember it. Not that anything was measured, but I'm not sure if I'm forgetting something. I made a baked, curry squash that everyone who had it absolutely loved and was an interesting way to serve squash.

As much as I can remember, I used one acorn squash and one butternut squash, added a medium onion, curry powder (sprinkled the whole surface generously), a good "pour" of heavy cream over it (maybe a half cup?) and a little extra water...the liquid doesn't quite cover the squash. Salt and fresh ground pepper. Cover the dish (I just use a Corningware dish with a cover) and bake at 350 F until the squash is tender (I can't remember how long that takes...about 30-45 min I think). I think that's all that went into it. It was really simple to make and very tasty.
Ooooh, that sounds really yummy!

Moonbear said:
A very tasty bird. :biggrin: I think that's what he goes out to N. Dakota (or S. Dakota...I never remember) to hunt. Unlike birds like pheasant or quail, unless you know someone who hunts, you can't buy chucker. I don't know if there's some reason they can't be farmed, but I've never seen or heard of them except through people who hunt for them.
:devil: What? You get me all excited over some yummy bird then tell me that I CAN'T HAVE ONE?
 
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