Un equal weight connecting rod will creat problem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of using a connecting rod that is 100 grams lighter than the original in a 10-cylinder Benz engine, particularly regarding its potential impact on engine dynamics, failure modes, and the resulting mechanical issues observed after 100 hours of operation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the weight difference of 100 grams could create significant imbalance and vibrations in the engine, potentially leading to faster wear or failure of components.
  • Another participant shares their experience with heavier forged rods in a different engine, suggesting that it did not lead to issues, indicating variability in outcomes based on different contexts.
  • Concerns are raised about the traditional quality control standards for connecting rod weights, which typically allow for a maximum variation of 9 grams, highlighting the potential risks of a 100-gram difference.
  • Participants discuss the need to determine the sequence of failures, questioning whether the oil pump failure was a precursor to the engine failure or a consequence of it.
  • Some participants argue that while the weight difference would cause imbalance, it is unlikely to be the sole cause of the oil pump or bearing failures, suggesting other factors may be at play.
  • There is mention of the importance of proper alignment during assembly, particularly in relation to the oil pump, which could lead to failures if not correctly positioned.
  • One participant reflects on their own experience with a different engine, noting that improper alignment led to excess wear and potential failure, suggesting that assembly issues could be a contributing factor.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for further investigation, including disassembly and examination of the engine components to understand the failure better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which the weight difference of the connecting rod contributed to the engine failure. While some acknowledge the potential for imbalance and vibration, others argue that it is unlikely to be the primary cause, indicating that multiple competing views remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the specific failure mechanisms, including the role of the oil pump and the nature of the metal particles found in the sump. The discussion also highlights the complexity of diagnosing engine failures, particularly when multiple factors may be involved.

sivam50
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Hi..all. I have replaced a connecting rod against a failed one (in a 10 piston Benz engine) which is 100 GM lesser than original one since the supplier has modified to Euro norms and old rod no more availble. Now after woking 100 odd hours, the engine failed. After dismantling the engine it was found, the oil pump found failed and metal particles found in the sump. Is it possible that the unequal connecting rods would have generated unbalenced dynamics in the engine and made the crank shaft bearings or con. bearing wear faster or make it fail?
Sorry for the common man language!
 
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I don't know the answer to the question although I have ran my Honda engine with forged rods that are heavier than OEM spec and all seemed fine. Just my experience.
 
Well you'll certainly get a vibration with unbalanced rods (ie one of them being significantly lighter than the others). Depends what the metal shavings are, and where they came from. 100 hours seems low for any engine, I'd put my money on the new rod being the cause of the engine failing.

It could just be coincidence though, it's too hard to tell from what you said.
 
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Traditional Quality Control standards state that connecting rod weight must not vary more than 9 grams in any given engine. That stated, you have a situation that is ten times over the normal proven process. Question - how many cylinders is the engine?
 
You really need to figure out what the failure sequence was. Did something in the crank case break up and metal chips blocked the oil supply and/or wrecked the oil pump, or did the pump fail first and the engine then failed (and wrecked a bearing) through lack of oil?

Whatever, thinking about it from first principles, having different mass rods on cylinders with the same crank angle is going to cause unbalanced loads that the crank was not designed for. Whether you would get away with sets of different mass rods at different angles is not so obvious. It might lead to torsional vibration problems, for example.
 
100 grams is almost a quarter pound. On something that is making 4-8000 strokes per minute (up and down strokes) that is going to create one hell of a problem. Now, you say that the oil pump failed? That's it? You found metal shavings, but nothing broken or excessively worn?
 
While the weight difference will cause an imbalance and a vibration, it's highly unlikely that it caused the oil pump or the bearings to fail. The usual vibration induced failure is a cracked or broken part and bearings don't tend to fail unless the crank fails first, and even then I've seen bearings in good condition on either side of the break.

Not aligning the pump so that the shaft and gears don't bind when rebuilding some Mercedes engines certainly will cause it to fail however.
 
mender said:
While the weight difference will cause an imbalance and a vibration, it's highly unlikely that it caused the oil pump or the bearings to fail. The usual vibration induced failure is a cracked or broken part and bearings don't tend to fail unless the crank fails first, and even then I've seen bearings in good condition on either side of the break.

Not aligning the pump so that the shaft and gears don't bind when rebuilding some Mercedes engines certainly will cause it to fail however.

I would have thought binding would lead to instadeath of the box when you tried to put torque thought it.

I think this will remain a mystery until there is a strip down. Would be interesting to see pictures.
 
Depends how severe the bind is; on my old 617 diesel it was enough to be noticable but not locked up before I adjusted it. If it had been left as it was it would have resulted in excess wear and likely eventual failure.

I had disassembled it to check clearances and wear and didn't quite have things in line. After the adjustment it spun smoothly and freely.

You're right, I'd like to see some pictures too!
 
  • #11
Ranger Mike said:
Question - how many cylinders is the engine?
I'm guessing one per piston, which would mean 10. (See bracketed section of the second sentence of original post.) :wink:

mender said:
bearings don't tend to fail unless the crank fails first

Unless you own a 60's-70's Mopar 440. :rolleyes:
They really don't like to oil the #4 rod bearing properly, and the results can be catastrophic. Been there, done that. Either Ranger or Stingray (sorry that I can't remember who) gave me a great link to a preventative manoeuvre involving some minor surgery. It was too late for me, but I now know why it went pear-shaped and can advise others.
I agree, however, that 100 gm is a horrific mismatch. I was never anywhere nearly as competitive as Ranger or Stingray or Hypatia, but my piston/rod combos were balanced within a gram of each other.
 
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  • #12
Danger...I doubt the non balance thing led to catastrophic melt down..prob assembly situation..like maybe fatigued con rod bolt..or oiling..like we figured out with external plumbing cure a while back..
Happy New Year..fellow mopar fiend
 

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