Uncovering the Truth About Planet X: Debunking Myths from a Renowned Astronomer

[Tregg Smith]

A certain talk show keeps bringing up this planet x supposedly in our solar system. An astronomer I heard on that same show said it couldn't be because we would know it was there because of the influence it would have on the orbits of the other planets and there is none. I'd like to believe the astronomer. Is he right?

 

[fillipeano]

If there was a planet "x", we would notice its gravity giving a slight tug on the orbits of the planets. As far as I know, all the gravity in the solar system is accounted for.

 

[russ_watters]

Define "planet x". Astronomers have found dozens of minor planets out beyond Pluto and no doubt will find dozens more.

 

[Nik_2213]

If it is out far enough, and possibly out of the plane of the ecliptic, there's scope for a couple. Hopefully, the current infrared sky surveys will limit the possibilities...

IIRC, there's still the chance of a Brown Dwarf turning up nearer than Prox Centauri...

 

[Drakkith]

A certain talk show keeps bringing up this planet x supposedly in our solar system. An astronomer I heard on that same show said it couldn't be because we would know it was there because of the influence it would have on the orbits of the other planets and there is none. I'd like to believe the astronomer. Is he right?

In the everday layman's meaning for Planet X, yes we would know it is there. In reality, you would first have to label Plant X as something specific. As said above, we have found many objects that aren't considered planets in our solar system. If far enough out even a full size planet might be undetected because of it's distance, but at that distance you could argue that it isn't really in the solar system at all. I'd trust the astronomer.

 

[Kometkaj]

Actually there IS an unaccounted gravitational force somewhere in the outskirts of our solar system.
It was first discovered when the orbit of the Pioneer probe was slightly different from what is should have been.
It may be due to the mass of the asteroids in the Kuiper belt is larger than expected, a single minor planet somewhere out there or a larger one with a higly elongated orbit.
SOme have even suggested that the Sun could have a brown dwarf companion-star in a distance of ~1lightyear!
See http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3427/getting-wise-about-nemesis
There was a discussion on the topic on the WISE teams blog: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-060

Ok; Planet X is highly speculative, but not so far out.
...or maybe it is :)

/BR Henrik

 

[DaveC426913]

Actually there IS an unaccounted gravitational force somewhere in the outskirts of our solar system.
It was first discovered when the orbit of the Pioneer probe was slightly different from what is should have been.

While the Pioneer Anomaly is well-known, I was not aware it was being attributed to dark planetary masses.

I don't doubt there may be some speculation about that, I do doubt there is any math to back it up. For one, I don't think the geometry works. The Pioneers are barely beyond Pluto.

 

[Chronos]

Planet X is a fitting description. The old wives tale asserts it is another Earth in opposing orbit [always behind the sun] and populated by a race of pink fairies.

 

[Kometkaj]

Hi Dave:
Well actually Pioneer 10 IS farther out than Pluto; Is is allmost as far as the Heliospause according to the Pioneer homepage.
But you are right: When the Pioneer anomali was detected it wasn't as far our. But objects are also influnced by masses outside of their orbit.

Contributed to planetary masses? There is a lot of theories including Kuiper Belt masses, unknown planets and even a distant brown dwarf-double star companion to the Sun (1ly out).

The theory of the larger mass planet is an elongated elliptical orbit, that should take it from inside pluto's orbit, to an apogee of allmost 1ly. The math has been calculated in scientific articles.
But of course; So far it's all just speculations to possible orbit/mass solutions to an observed deviation

/Best Regards Henrik

 

[Tregg Smith]

Define "planet x". Astronomers have found dozens of minor planets out beyond Pluto and no doubt will find dozens more.

They apparently think it's of significant size-larger than Pluto. They try to purpetuate a lot of unscientific nonsense.

 

[qraal]

A certain talk show keeps bringing up this planet x supposedly in our solar system. An astronomer I heard on that same show said it couldn't be because we would know it was there because of the influence it would have on the orbits of the other planets and there is none. I'd like to believe the astronomer. Is he right?

Planet X was a hypothetical planet which perturbed the orbits of Uranus and Neptune. Percival Lowell computed it's orbit and Clive Tombaugh was looking for it when he found Pluto. However the perturbations vanish from the data when more accurate masses and distances to Uranus and Neptune are used, thus "Planet X" in the Lowellian sense doesn't exist.

However Saturn persistently shows anomalies with its orbit. A body beyond Pluto's orbit might be the cause, but the distance to the Perturber goes up roughly with the square root of it's mass. Lorenzo Iorio has computed the necessary distance for a given mass and inclination...

http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.2634"

 

[Garth]

While the Pioneer Anomaly is well-known, I was not aware it was being attributed to dark planetary masses.

I don't doubt there may be some speculation about that, I do doubt there is any math to back it up. For one, I don't think the geometry works. The Pioneers are barely beyond Pluto.

The PA was discovered when the data was examined for evidence of a 'Planet X'.

The fact that the effect is more or less constant once the probes passed the orbit of Saturn and the two probes traveling in opposite directions from the Sun recorded to same effect proved that it wasn't caused by a single massive unknown planet. The actual cause is the subject of much speculation and further research...

Garth

 

[qraal]

The PA was discovered when the data was examined for evidence of a 'Planet X'.

The fact that the effect is more or less constant once the probes passed the orbit of Saturn and the two probes traveling in opposite directions from the Sun recorded to same effect proved that it wasn't caused by a single massive unknown planet. The actual cause is the subject of much speculation and further research...

Garth

The Pioneer "Anomaly" is an anomaly no longer...

http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.5222"

F. Francisco, O. Bertolami, P. J. S. Gil, J. Páramos
(Submitted on 27 Mar 2011)

Abstract: We present an improved method to compute the radiative momentum transfer in the Pioneer 10 & 11 spacecraft that takes into account both diffusive and specular reflection. The method allows for more reliable results regarding the thermal acceleration of the deep-space probes, confirming previous findings. A parametric analysis is performed in order to set an upper and lower-bound for the thermal acceleration and its evolution with time.

...the redoubtable http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/" has a worthwhile commentary...

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26589/"

...so anomaly no more.

However that doesn't mean there's not something strange going on in Sol-Space...

 

[DaveC426913]

The Pioneer "Anomaly" is an anomaly no longer...

http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.5222"



...the redoubtable http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/" has a worthwhile commentary...

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26589/"

...so anomaly no more.

However that doesn't mean there's not something strange going on in Sol-Space...

So, for those of us who can't read, what is the short version?

Thermal acceleration? As in: thermal energy emitted by the craft radiating asymmetrically and is slowing its exit?

 

[twofish-quant]

Thermal acceleration? As in: thermal energy emitted by the craft radiating asymmetrically and is slowing its exit?

Yes. This is of a lot of interest in asteroids, since the different amounts of radiation pressure can change the orbits by quite a lot.

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~davidn/papers/iau-davok.pdf

So much so that if we think we have spotted an asteroid that is scheduled to hit earth, we might be able to nudge it by painting one side black.

The thing about things like radiation pressure is that they affect small objects more than big objects. There are no known anomalies in the movement of the planets. What we thought was planet X turned out to be a miscalculation in the mass of Neptune.

http://discovermagazine.com/1993/sep/planetxisdead271

And Pluto? Tombaugh just got lucky. He was looking for something that wasn't there and found something different. Sort of like Christopher Columbus.

 

[qraal]

There are no known anomalies in the movement of the planets.

Not quite true. A quick perusal of Iorio's papers reveal quite a few outstanding questions - Earth's increasing orbit, the Moon's increasing eccentricity, the residuals in Saturn's orbit etc. But there is no Planet X in the Lowellian sense.