Understanding Dirac Notation in Quantum Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and implications of Dirac notation in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on inner products of state vectors, projections, and the relationship between state vectors and eigenstates. Participants explore theoretical concepts, mathematical representations, and the nuances of quantum states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the inner product <\psi|\psi> as a projection rather than a transfer of state, comparing it to the dot product of ordinary vectors.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of , with some suggesting it represents the wave function of the state |ψ⟩ in Cartesian coordinates.
  • One participant questions whether projection is similar to the collapse of the wave function to an eigenstate.
  • Another participant clarifies that <\phi|\psi> can be interpreted as a transition amplitude if |φ⟩ is an eigenfunction of |ψ⟩.
  • There is a challenge regarding the concept of eigenfunctions, with a participant asserting that both |φ⟩ and |ψ⟩ are vectors and cannot be eigenvectors of each other without an operator mapping.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding and refines the statement to clarify that if |φ⟩ is a basis vector of the Hilbert space, the previous assertion holds true.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of projections, the interpretation of inner products, and the relationship between state vectors and eigenstates. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the relationships between state vectors and operators, as well as the definitions of eigenstates and eigenfunctions. Some mathematical steps and definitions remain unresolved.

phyky
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1.) an inner product of a state vector represent by <\psi|\psi>. sometimes the notation is like <\phi|\psi> is mean transfer from state |\psi> to <\phi|.it mean the former 1 do not transfer the state? what is the difference between both?
2.) what is mean by <x|\psi>? is it mean x(position) mean the final state we reach where we extract form |\psi> ? from eigen value equation \hat{x} |\psi>=\lambda|\psi> where \lambda is the eigen value of position. so why do we need <x|\psi>?
 
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phyky said:
1.) an inner product of a state vector represent by <\psi|\psi>. sometimes the notation is like <\phi|\psi> is mean transfer from state |\psi> to <\phi|.it mean the former 1 do not transfer the state? what is the difference between both?
It is similar to the dot product of ordinary vectors. It is not a "transfer", but rather a projection. ##\langle \psi | \psi \rangle## is the "length" of the state ##\psi##. It is equal to 1 if the state is normalized.

phyky said:
2.) what is mean by <x|\psi>? is it mean x(position) mean the final state we reach where we extract form |\psi> ?
I will not go into the fact that ##\langle x |## is not a proper bra, but basically writing
##\langle x | \psi \rangle## allows to given a representation of the state ##| \psi \rangle## as a wave function of the cartesian coordinate ##x##,
$$
\psi(x) = \langle x | \psi \rangle
$$

phyky said:
from eigen value equation \hat{x} |\psi>=\lambda|\psi> where \lambda is the eigen value of position. so why do we need <x|\psi>?
##| \psi \rangle## is an arbitrary quantum state, not an eigenvector of the ##\hat{x}## operator.
 
is projection kinda same as the ψ "collapse" to 1 of the eigenstate \phi?
 
No. Do you know anything about dot-products from linear/vector algebra? The <|> inner products are just generalization of dot-product. Phi and psi are vectors, and \langle \phi | \psi \rangle is just a dot-product between the two. Of course, in the continuous case, the sum over components becomes an integral over position. Hence if you are given \langle x | \psi \rangle = \psi(x) and \langle x | \phi \rangle = \phi(x), then \langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int \phi^*(x)\psi(x) dx.
 
But if $\phi$ is an eigenfunction of $\psi$, then:
\begin{equation}
\langle \phi | \psi \rangle
\end{equation}
is the transition amplitude, right? (I think that is maybe what the OP is asking.)
 
AlbertEi said:
But if $\phi$ is an eigenfunction of $\psi$,
|\phi\rangle is a vector. So is |\psi\rangle. So one can't be an eigen vector of the other. Because they are both vectors. To have an eigen vector, you must be dealing with a map from a Hilbert space to Hilbert space. Such a map is called an operator. So if A is an operator, then for every |\psi\rangle there exists a corresponding vector |A\psi\rangle such that |A\psi\rangle = A|\psi\rangle. Furthermore, if |\psi\rangle is an eigen vector of A, then A|\psi\rangle = \lambda |\psi\rangle for some \lambda.
 
Yeah, you are completely right. Sorry. I meant if |\phi\rangle is a basisvector of the Hilbert space, then my statement is correct?
 

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