Understanding gluons and SU(3)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between gluons and the generators of SU(3), specifically the Gell-Mann matrices, within the context of Quantum Chromodynamics (QCD). Participants explore how structure constants describe gluon interactions, including three-gluon and four-gluon vertices, and the implications of these relationships in the framework of SU(3) Yang-Mills theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • François questions how gluons relate to the Gell-Mann matrices and how structure constants f and d describe gluon transformations, particularly in the context of red-antigreen gluons transforming into other gluon combinations.
  • One participant explains that the QCD Lagrangian includes terms proportional to F^a_{\mu\nu} F^{a\mu\nu}, indicating that the f constants are involved in both three-gluon and four-gluon vertices.
  • François later reiterates the explanation about the QCD Lagrangian and suggests that the f constants describe both three and four gluon vertices, while also questioning the representation of the first generator as the red-antigreen gluon.
  • Another participant describes the SU(3) Lie algebra as an 8-dimensional vector space spanned by the Gell-Mann matrices, suggesting that gluons can be viewed as coefficients in a linear combination of these matrices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the relationship between gluons and the Gell-Mann matrices, as well as the role of structure constants in describing gluon interactions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of these relationships and the implications for understanding gluon behavior.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes complex mathematical expressions and concepts that may depend on specific definitions and assumptions about the structure of SU(3) and QCD. Some participants express uncertainty about the exact nature of gluon transformations and the representation of generators.

franoisbelfor
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How are gluons related to the generators of SU(3),
the Gell-Mann matrices?

I do not understand how the structure constants f and d
describe how, for example, a red-antigreen gluon transforms
into a red-antiblue and a blue-antigreen one.
Do the f or the d factors describe the three-gluon vertices?
Or both? And where do 4-gluon vertices come in?

Thank you in advance for any help!

François
 
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QCD lagrangian contains a term that is proportional to F^a_{\mu\nu} F^{a\mu\nu} where F^a_{\mu\nu} = \delta_{\mu}A^a_{\nu} - \delta_{\nu} A^a_{\mu} - gf^{abc} A^b_{\mu} A^c_{\nu}, A^a_{\mu} are gluon vector fields ('a' goes from 1 to 3), and f's are structure constants.

You can expand this formula and see some terms that contain one 'f' and three 'A's (three-gluon vertices), and a term that contains two 'f's and four 'A's (four-gluon vertex).

Does that help?

p.s. it seems that LaTeX generator is down.
 
Last edited:
hamster143 said:
QCD lagrangian contains a term that is proportional to F^a_{\mu\nu} F^{a\mu\nu} where F^a_{\mu\nu} = \delta_{\mu}A^a_{\nu} - \delta_{\nu} A^a_{\mu} - gf^{abc} A^b_{\mu} A^c_{\nu}, A^a_{\mu} are gluon vector fields ('a' goes from 1 to 3), and f's are structure constants.

You can expand this formula and see some terms that contain one 'f' and three 'A's (three-gluon vertices), and a term that contains two 'f's and four 'A's (four-gluon vertex).

Ah, the f constants describe both 3 and 4 gluon vertices. The three rows and columns
of the generators are rgb and anti-r, anti-g and anti-b, am I right?
And the first generator (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_unitary_group#SU.283.29")
"is" the red-antigreen gluon?

François
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In SU(3) Yang-Mills theory, the associated field lives in the SU(3) Lie algebra which is an 8-dimensional vector space spanned by (eg) the 8 Gell-Mann matrices. The general field can thus be written as a linear combination of the Gell-Mann matrices. You can think of the gluons as the linear combination coefficients, or better as the linear combination coefficients multiplied by the corresponding generator.

This is all just semantics of course, and ultimately you should think of the gluons not individually but as part of a unified 8-dimensional entity.
 

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