Understanding Relations in Mathematics

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The discussion focuses on understanding mathematical relations, particularly in the context of circles and recurrence relations. Participants are tasked with determining whether specific relations are reflexive, symmetric, antisymmetric, and transitive, using definitions that may differ from their prior learning. Clarification is sought on how to rephrase abstract properties like "symmetric" and "reflexive" in practical terms related to the given sets. There is a sense of confusion stemming from the difference in phrasing and definitions encountered in the problems. Overall, the thread emphasizes the need for clear definitions and examples to grasp these mathematical concepts effectively.
liahow
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Not really understanding these concepts.

Consider the following relation on the set of all circles in the xy plane: A ~ B if and only if the center of circle A is inside circle B. Is ~ reflexive? Is ~ symmetric? Is ~ antisymmetric? Is ~ transitive? Prove answers.


Consider the following relation on the set of all recurrence relations. X ~ D if and only if all of the terms of the sequence associated with D appear in the sequence associated with X. Is ~ reflexive, symmetric, antisymmetric, transitive? Prove.
 
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liahow said:
Not really understanding these concepts.

Consider the following relation on the set of all circles in the xy plane: A ~ B if and only if the center of circle A is inside circle B. Is ~ reflexive? Is ~ symmetric? Is ~ antisymmetric? Is ~ transitive? Prove answers.


Consider the following relation on the set of all recurrence relations. X ~ D if and only if all of the terms of the sequence associated with D appear in the sequence associated with X. Is ~ reflexive, symmetric, antisymmetric, transitive? Prove.
What have you done so far ? Do you understand the definitions ?
 
As far as the definitions go, what we learned in our books is different from this equation. We've been given sets and told to go with those. Perhaps it's just my own ignorance, but when a problem is so dramatically phrased differently than the way I learn it, I am stuck in neutral.
 
liahow said:
...
Consider the following relation on the set of all circles in the xy plane: A ~ B if and only if the center of circle A is inside circle B. ... Is ~ symmetric?
...
Let's look at this one. Rephrase the abstract property "symmetric" in terms of the set you are working with. In this case, it is asking "If a circle A has its center inside circle B, does it necessarily follow that circle B has its center inside circle A ?"
Do this with the rest of the questions. :smile:
 
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hypermorphism said:
Let's look at this one. Rephrase the abstract property "reflexive" in terms of the set you are working with. In this case, it is asking "If a circle A has its center inside circle B, does it necessarily follow that circle B has its center inside circle A ?"
Do this with the rest of the questions. :smile:
Just so liahow isn't confused, the question above is for the symmetric property. A ~ B if and only if the center of circle A is inside circle B, so reflexive would just be A ~ A, or "the center of circle A is inside circle A".
 
liahow said:
As far as the definitions go, what we learned in our books is different from this equation. We've been given sets and told to go with those. Perhaps it's just my own ignorance, but when a problem is so dramatically phrased differently than the way I learn it, I am stuck in neutral.
You were asked "what is the definition" of a relation. Please tell us what definitions you have learned, whether they are "different from this equation" or not (I don't quite understand that- you haven't cited any equations).
 
Here is a little puzzle from the book 100 Geometric Games by Pierre Berloquin. The side of a small square is one meter long and the side of a larger square one and a half meters long. One vertex of the large square is at the center of the small square. The side of the large square cuts two sides of the small square into one- third parts and two-thirds parts. What is the area where the squares overlap?

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