Understanding the concept of every open set being a disjoint union

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of representing open sets in \(\mathbb{R}\) as disjoint unions of open intervals. Participants explore the implications of this theorem, particularly in the context of specific examples like the open interval (0, 10), and express confusion regarding the existence of gaps when attempting to form such unions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding how the open set (0, 10) can be represented as a disjoint union of countable open intervals, citing concerns about gaps in coverage.
  • Another participant clarifies that an open set in \(\mathbb{R}\) is defined as a union of open intervals, which may not be disjoint initially but can be rearranged into a disjoint union by merging overlapping intervals.
  • A third participant notes that the set {(0, 10)} is countable and thus qualifies as a countable union of open intervals, reinforcing the idea that finite sets are included in the definition of countable.
  • The initial participant reiterates their confusion, emphasizing the issue of gaps when forming unions of disjoint intervals and mentioning their review of various proofs without resolution.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that every open subset of the reals can also be expressed as a countable union of almost disjoint closed intervals, adding another layer to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there is ongoing confusion about the representation of open sets as disjoint unions, and differing views on the implications of countability and gaps in coverage persist.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the dependence on definitions of countability and the nature of open intervals, as well as the potential for gaps when intervals are not disjoint. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions that remain unresolved.

jdinatale
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of a countable collection of open intervals.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this could be true. For instance, take the open set (0, 10). I'm having a hard time seeing how one could make this into a union of countable open intervals.

For instance, (0,1) U (1, 10) or (0, 3) U (3, 6) U (6, 10) wouldn't work because those open intervals miss some points. There are "gaps" missing from the initial open set (0, 10). It seems like any union of DISJOINT intervals would have "gaps" missing from the initial open set. And if any of the open sets overlap to fill those gaps, then they are no longer disjoint.

I've read several proofs of this theorem, and they don't clear up my confusion.
 
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An open set in \mathbb R is by definition a (not necessarily disjoint) union of open intervals. You can show that \mathbb R is second countable, so an at most countable number of open intervals suffices. Now a union of (not necessarily disjoint) open intervals is either an open interval again (for example (0,2) \cup (1,3) = (0,3)) or it is already a disjoint union of open intervals. So given an open set as a coutable union of not necessarily disjoint open intervals, you can always make it into a disjoint union of open intervals by joining the sets that have nonzero intersection.

In your case, (0, 10) is already an open interval, so it is already a countable union of open intervals. Just take A_0 = (0,10) and A_n = \varnothing for n\neq 0.
 
Countable includes finite, so a finite set is also countable. So {(0,10)} is countable set and its union is (0,10), which is therefore a countable union of open intervals.
 
jdinatale said:
of a countable collection of open intervals.

I'm having a hard time seeing how this could be true. For instance, take the open set (0, 10). I'm having a hard time seeing how one could make this into a union of countable open intervals.

For instance, (0,1) U (1, 10) or (0, 3) U (3, 6) U (6, 10) wouldn't work because those open intervals miss some points. There are "gaps" missing from the initial open set (0, 10). It seems like any union of DISJOINT intervals would have "gaps" missing from the initial open set. And if any of the open sets overlap to fill those gaps, then they are no longer disjoint.

I've read several proofs of this theorem, and they don't clear up my confusion.

You might be interested to know then that every open subset of the reals can be written as a countable union of almost disjoint closed intervals.
 

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