Understanding the RK Derivation Intuitively

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the intuitive understanding of the Runge-Kutta (RK) derivation, particularly the relationship between second derivatives and partial derivatives in the context of numerical methods for solving ordinary differential equations. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between the second derivative and the sum of two partial derivatives multiplied by the first derivative.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation of numerical initial value techniques, specifically the Runge-Kutta method, and outlines the total derivative of a function in terms of its partial derivatives.
  • The explanation includes the derivation of the second time derivative of y, showing how it relates to the function f(t,y) and its partial derivatives.
  • A later reply acknowledges the explanation positively, indicating appreciation for the clarity provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the intuitive understanding of the RK derivation, as one participant remains confused while another provides a mathematical framework that may not address the initial query directly.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the differentiability of functions and the existence of partial derivatives, which may not be explicitly stated or universally accepted among participants.

bangthatdrum
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Im looking at the RK derivation and as part of that I know it is the case that:

y'' = partial f / partial x + partial f / partial y * y'

But at an intuitive level I cannnot understand why. How does the second derivative equal the sum of the two partial derivatives times the first?
 
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Please ignore this.
 


Numerical initial value techniques such as Runge-Kutta address the problem of approximating y(t) where the value of y(t) is known at some initial point t0 and where time derivative of y(t) is a function of the variable of interest and time:

\aligned<br /> y&#039;(t) &amp;\equiv \frac{dy(t)}{dt} = f(t,y(t)) \\[4pt]<br /> y(t_0) &amp;= y_0<br /> \endaligned


Suppose some function g(t,y) is a differentiable function of t and y, by which I mean that the partial derivatives of g with respect to t and to y exist at all points where g is defined. Now suppose that y is a function of t. The total derivative of g with respect to t is given by

\frac{dg(t,y(t))}{dt} = \frac{\partial g(t,y)}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial g(t,y)}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}

With this, the second time derivative of y is

y&#039;&#039;(t) = \frac{dy&#039;}{dt} = \frac{df(t,y(t))}{dt} = \frac{\partial f(t,y)}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial f(t,y)}{\partial y}\frac{dy}{dt}

But we already know dy/dt: It is f(t,y). Thus

y&#039;&#039;(t) = \frac{\partial f(t,y)}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial f(t,y)}{\partial y}f(t,y)
 


bangthatdrum said:
Please ignore this.
Too late.
 


Thank you D H. This is wonderful.
 

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