Understanding the Role of Singularities in Finding Integrating Factors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of integrating factors for differential equations of the form M(x,y) dx + N(x,y) dy = 0, with a particular focus on the role of singularities in determining whether such factors exist. Participants explore theoretical conditions, practical implications, and the nuances of integrating factors in both single-variable and multivariable contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that there exists an integrating factor u(x,y) such that the partial derivative of uM with respect to y equals the partial derivative of uN with respect to x, but questions the condition regarding singularities.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that u=0 could be a solution, indicating a lack of seriousness in their response.
  • A participant asserts that integrating factors do not always exist, suggesting that they are more common than guaranteed.
  • There is a discussion about whether a rule exists stating that an integrating factor always exists unless there is a singularity, with conflicting views presented.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the existence of integrating factors in single-variable cases versus multivariable cases, indicating a lack of exploration in their course material.
  • Another participant mentions a learned rule that integrating factors exist as long as the functions involved are smooth, although they acknowledge the practical challenges in finding such factors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the existence of integrating factors, with some suggesting that they always exist under certain conditions while others argue that singularities may prevent their existence. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached on the rules governing integrating factors.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the smoothness of functions and the implications of singularities but do not provide a definitive framework for understanding these concepts in the context of integrating factors.

swimmingtoday
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Suppose you have an equation:

M(x,y) dx + N(x,y) dy = 0

I have heard that there always exists an integrating factor u(x,y) such that the partial derivative of uM with respect to y equals the partial derivative of uN with respect to x.

But somewhere in the back of my mind I remember that there is a condition that the guarantee of the existence of the integrating factor is valid ONLY if there are no singularities in the region.

Can someone please tell me the exact status regarding singularities is? Thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot.
 
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smart aleck answer: u=0 seems to work.
 
there isn't always an integrating factor that works, just most of the time.

assuming your not a smart aleck
 
<<there isn't always an integrating factor that works, just most of the time>>

Thanks.

Is there any particular rule for when there will be one that works? Like for example, is there a rule that an integrating factor exists unless there is a singularity?

I've heard both:

1) An integrating factor ALWAYS exists (but might not neccessarily be easily be found)

and

2) Exists as long as there is no singularity.
 
I'm going to guess that the 2nd one is true.I'm not sure as in my course we got far enough to know that a single variable integrating factor may not exist.

Although come to think of it we didn't explore multivariable integrating factors, so maybe those always exist, I'll leave it to someone a bit more knowledgeable to answer.
 
swimmingtoday said:
<<there isn't always an integrating factor that works, just most of the time>>

Thanks.

Is there any particular rule for when there will be one that works? Like for example, is there a rule that an integrating factor exists unless there is a singularity?

I've heard both:

1) An integrating factor ALWAYS exists (but might not neccessarily be easily be found)

and

2) Exists as long as there is no singularity.

The rule I learned is that F(x,y)dx + G(x,y)dy = 0 always has an integrating factor as long as F and G are smooth, like there was an existence proof of this, which however I never saw, but that integrating factors in practice was a whole 'nother question and only a few examples exist, only a very much fewer of which are any real use at all.
 

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