Understanding the Uncertainty Principle: Microscopic vs. Macroscopic Examples

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, exploring its implications at both microscopic (quantum) and macroscopic (classical) levels. Participants seek examples that illustrate the principle's effects in different contexts, comparing classical mechanics with quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that at the quantum level, identical setups do not yield identical measurements of position and momentum, contrasting this with classical mechanics where identical setups lead to identical outcomes.
  • One participant provides an analogy using billiard balls to illustrate how classical mechanics operates without the uncertainty principle, while quantum mechanics introduces variability in outcomes.
  • Another participant suggests that while the uncertainty principle is negligible at macroscopic levels due to the small value of Planck's constant, it still has implications in certain scenarios, such as collisions of billiard balls.
  • Examples of the uncertainty principle's application include estimating the size of a hydrogen atom based on the energy of its ground state and discussing why electrons cannot reside in a nucleus.
  • A participant recalls a mention from a quantum chemistry course about how initial errors in a well-designed billiard ball experiment could be amplified, potentially leading to outcomes influenced by the uncertainty principle.
  • There is a discussion about the balance between simplicity in examples and the need to accurately reflect the complexity of the uncertainty principle's implications at different scales.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of agreement on the implications of the uncertainty principle at different scales, with some suggesting it applies at the macroscopic level under certain conditions, while others emphasize its primary relevance at the microscopic level. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent of the principle's applicability in classical contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential oversimplification of examples and the dependence on specific definitions of classical and quantum systems. The discussion does not resolve the nuances of how the uncertainty principle manifests in practical scenarios.

Anithadhruvbud
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Can anybody give me a simple example of uncertainty principle in both microscopic and microscopic level so that I can recall it every time I read about this topic ?
 
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Basically, it says that at the quantum level, if you start off with EXACTLY the same set-up for a particle, no two subsequent measurements of position and momentum will be exactly the same and the uncertainty in the measurements is given by Heisenberg's uncertainty equation (Google it). This is exactly the opposite of classical mechanics where identical starting setups HAS to result in identical subsequent measurements.

EDIT: ah, I see you asked for an example not an explanation. Let me give you an example by analogy. In classical mechanics, if you lay out a billiard table with microscopic precision and make it exactly identical twice in a row and hit one ball with the cue in exactly the same way, then in both cases, the hit ball will go to exactly the same place. If the balls were quantum objects, the result would be that the hit ball would NOT go to exactly the same place each time and the amount by which it could be excpected to vary would be limited by the Heisenberg uncertainty equation.
 
Last edited:
Anithadhruvbud said:
simple example of uncertainty principle in both microscopic and microscopic level

perhaps you meant micrscopic and macroscopic level.

Uncertainty principle works/operate at microscopic level-
in classical world -macroscopic level the uncertainties are not important as its value is so small(due to Planck's constant h) that it becomes meaningless.

a few examples are there -but i can not vouch for its simplicity-
1. suppose somebody gives you the energy of the ground state of electron in Hydrogen atom and asks you to estimate size of the atom- you can use the principle to get an approx. size. by using the relation for position and momentum of a particle.
2. if somebody gives you the size of a nucleus asks you to prove that an electron can not stay in a nucleus- one can use the principle -though its a fact that electron is not a part of any nucleus.
 
phinds said:
In classical mechanics, if you lay out a billiard table with microscopic precision and make it exactly identical twice in a row and hit one ball with the cue in exactly the same way, then in both cases, the hit ball will go to exactly the same place.

Actually I remember being told that in a well designed experiment - billiard balls hitting each other in such a way that the initial error gets multiplied in each collision - Heisenberg principle may prevent the 8th ball from hitting the 9th one. Sorry, no reference for that, it was just mentioned by one of TAs in a quantum chemistry course I took back in eighties.
 
Borek said:
Actually I remember being told that in a well designed experiment - billiard balls hitting each other in such a way that the initial error gets multiplied in each collision - Heisenberg principle may prevent the 8th ball from hitting the 9th one. Sorry, no reference for that, it was just mentioned by one of TAs in a quantum chemistry course I took back in eighties.
Yes, I think that's probably right since the HUP does apply at the macro level if you measure close enough, but I was trying for simplicity and to give a direct comparison of classical mechanics WITHOUT the HUP to QM with the HUP.
 

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