Units for Entropy of Simple Black Holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the units of entropy for simple black holes as described by Gerard 't Hooft's equation. Participants explore the implications of the derived units and whether any conversion constants are missing from the equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation for the entropy of a simple black hole and derives the units as seconds cubed per meters cubed, questioning the significance of these units.
  • Another participant notes that entropy is generally expressed in joules per kelvin, indicating a discrepancy in the derived units.
  • A later reply suggests that a factor of the Boltzmann constant and the speed of light is missing, which would correct the units to align with conventional expressions of entropy.
  • The initial poster acknowledges the missing constants and expresses gratitude for the clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial unit derivation, but there is agreement on the need for additional constants to align with standard entropy units.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of including specific constants in equations related to black hole thermodynamics, and the implications of unit discrepancies are not fully resolved.

muzukashi suginaiyo
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Hello. I recently discovered Gerard 't Hooft's (what a complicated name to type, isn't it?*apostrophe*apostrophe*apostrophe) equation for the entropy of a simple black hole (what is meant by "simple" I have no idea). It is:

Where "S" is the entropy of a simple black hole
A is the area of the black hole's event horizon
h is (reduced?) Planck's Constant
G is the gravitational constant

S = A/(4hG)

Unless there is a conversion constant missing in this equation (is there?), I get units for entropy as (s^3)/(m^3).

That is,

Entropy = [m^2]/[(kg*m^2/s)*(m^3/kg*s^2)]

= seconds cubed per meters cubed? What does this signify? Is there some "speed" associated with entropy such that entropy is inversely proportional to the cube of this "speed"?

Or am I way off track here?
 
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I've never heard of entropy referred to in ##\frac {s^3} {m^3}##. Generally it's given as ##\frac J K##.
 
muzukashi suginaiyo said:
Hello. I recently discovered Gerard 't Hooft's (what a complicated name to type, isn't it?*apostrophe*apostrophe*apostrophe) equation for the entropy of a simple black hole (what is meant by "simple" I have no idea). It is:

Where "S" is the entropy of a simple black hole
A is the area of the black hole's event horizon
h is (reduced?) Planck's Constant
G is the gravitational constant

S = A/(4hG)

Unless there is a conversion constant missing in this equation (is there?), I get units for entropy as (s^3)/(m^3).

That is,

Entropy = [m^2]/[(kg*m^2/s)*(m^3/kg*s^2)]

= seconds cubed per meters cubed? What does this signify? Is there some "speed" associated with entropy such that entropy is inversely proportional to the cube of this "speed"?

Or am I way off track here?
You're missing a factor of ##k_B c^3##. The three factors of ##c## cancel out the ##s^3/m^3##, while the Boltzmann constant ##k_B## has units of energy per unit temperature (typically J/K, as TJGilb mentioned). You can see this at the Wikipedia page here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_thermodynamics
 
Ah. Okay. So there was a couple constants missing. Thanks.
 

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