Unraveling the Mystery of the Expanding Universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the expanding universe and its implications for celestial bodies, particularly why the Earth and other planets do not appear to be moving away from the Sun as a result of this expansion. The scope includes theoretical considerations from general relativity, observational data regarding the Astronomical Unit, and models of gravitationally bound systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the universe's expansion is a well-established fact, questioning why it does not affect the distances between the Earth and the Sun.
  • One participant references a study indicating that the Astronomical Unit is increasing, suggesting a secular increase in the Earth's distance from the Sun, but notes that this increase is small and may not relate to the Hubble expansion.
  • Another participant introduces the analogy of "pennies on an expanding balloon" to explain the behavior of gravitationally bound systems, indicating that a more sophisticated model is needed beyond simple analogies.
  • Several links to advanced research papers are provided for further exploration of the topic, suggesting that the discussion is open to more complex theoretical frameworks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the universe is expanding, but there is no consensus on how this expansion interacts with gravitationally bound systems like the solar system. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain regarding the implications of this expansion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made in the analysis of the increasing Astronomical Unit and the models used to describe gravitationally bound systems. The relationship between local gravitational effects and cosmic expansion remains unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and enthusiasts of cosmology, general relativity, and celestial mechanics, as well as those curious about the implications of the expanding universe on local gravitational systems.

newtron
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I know it's been proven beyond all doubt that the universe is expanding but one thing is bugging me. Why isn't the Earth (and the other planets for that matter) moving away from the sun due to this expansion? Maybe this is a daft question but I can't think of an answer. Can somebody please explain?
 
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newtron said:
I know it's been proven beyond all doubt that the universe is expanding but one thing is bugging me. Why isn't the Earth (and the other planets for that matter) moving away from the sun due to this expansion?

They don't because that's what General Relativity says (more or less). :smile:

OK, that was a joke. Seriously, it has been discovered not so many years ago
that the Astronomical Unit (AU) is increasing, so at least the Earth's distance from
the Sun is increasing secularly at this epoch. See

G.A. Krasinsky and V.A. Brumberg, Celestial Mechanics & Dynamical Astronomy 90, 287 (2004).

It must be stressed that the result reported here (an increase of the AU of about 15 m per century)
is indirect, inasmuch as this increase is inferred from an analysis of radiometric measurements of distances between the Earth and the major planets. So while it seems that the reported increase
of the AU is far too small to have anything to do with the Hubble expansion, it is possible that this
discrepancy can be blamed on incorrect theory-dependent assumptions made when analyzing the data.
 
What expands?

newtron said:
Why isn't the Earth (and the other planets for that matter) moving away from the sun due to this expansion? Maybe this is a daft question but I can't think of an answer. Can somebody please explain?

It's a good question, and somebody has. See [thread=153958]this PF thread[/thread] and references therein.

The keyword is "pennies on an expanding balloon", but at a higher level of approximation, clearly we should model gravitationally bound solar systems and galaxies in a more sophisticated way than as rigid pennies. For advanced students, some relevant arxiv eprints are
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0102103, http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0609271, http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0605611, and (often cited!) http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310808
 
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Thanks for pointing me in the direction of some answers. Very interesting stuff.
 

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