Using Hund's rules to find ground state L, S, J

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around using Hund's rules to determine the ground state quantum numbers L, S, and J for the elements fluorine, magnesium, and titanium. Participants are exploring the physical significance of these quantum numbers and their relationships, particularly in the context of electron configurations and angular momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants express confusion about the meanings of L, S, and J, and how they relate to the quantum numbers associated with electron configurations. There are attempts to apply Hund's rules, with some participants questioning the maximum and minimum values of L and J based on the electron configurations of titanium and other elements.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and clarifications about the addition of angular momentum and the implications of Hund's rules. Some participants have offered guidance on how to approach the problem, while others are still seeking clarity on specific points, such as the calculation of available J values and the maximum L for given electron configurations.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating various assumptions about electron configurations and the rules governing angular momentum. There is mention of the complexity of d subshell filling and the requirement for total electron states to be antisymmetric, which adds to the discussion's depth.

astrocytosis
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Homework Statement



Using Hund's rules, find the ground state L, S and J of the following atoms: (a) fluorine, (b) magnesium, and (c) titanium.

Homework Equations



J = L + S

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having trouble understanding what L, S and J mean on a basic level. I read the textbook chapter multiple times but I'm still not grasping their physical significance and how they are related to s, l and j.

I think I need to look at the outer shell, so for Mg for example the outer shell is an s orbital which I know means L = 0. And J = L + S. But I'm unsure about how to find S. I think it might be 1/2 + -1/2 = 0 since there are 2 electrons and one must be spin up and the other spin down? This makes J = 0. So the answer would be 0, 0, 0. Is that correct? I didn't really make use of Hund's rules here.

Using this reasoning I would get S = 1/2, L = 1, J =1+1/2 for F and S = 1, L = 2, J = 3 for Ti. Is this the correct approach? Is there a good way to make sense of S, L, and J so I don't get so confused about what they represent?
 
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Titanium has ## 3d^2 4s^2 ##. (I googled it.) The ## S=1 ## looks correct, but what is the maximum ## L ## that you can make? Then, to apply the 3rd rule, with the shell less than or equal to be half-filled, what is the minimum ## J ## ?
 
I'm having trouble understanding how L can have more than one value. I thought that L = 2 for d shells and L = 0 for S shells always. Maybe it can be 3 since n = 4 for 4s2?
 
astrocytosis said:
I'm having trouble understanding how L can have more than one value. I thought that L = 2 for d shells and L = 0 for S shells always. Maybe it can be 3 since n = 4 for 4s2?
In the d=2 orbital, ## l=2 ## for each electron. You are adding angular momentum: ## \vec{L}=\vec{l_1}+\vec{l_2} ##. With 2 electrons each of l=2, you can generate an ## L=4 ## state. The possible ## L ## states (for ## l_1=2 ## and ## l_2=2 ##) are ## L=4,3,2,1, \, and \, 0 ##. The topic that covers it in more detail is found under the category Clebsch-Gordon coefficients, and I think Racah coefficients, but if you read anything that gives a good summary of the addition of angular momentum, that should be sufficient for the purpose at hand. (Similarly you are adding ## \vec{S}=\vec{s_1}+\vec{s_2} ##. Finally, you take the ## L ## and ## S ## and get the ## \vec{J}=\vec{L}+\vec{S} ##. In all 3 cases, you are adding angular momentum. The process is a little bit odd, but good explanations of it can be found if you google it and read the wikipedia summary, etc.)
 
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Ok, that makes sense; somehow I missed that L is just the sum of each electron's l. So for Ti S = 1, L = 4, and J = 1 since L = l + l = 0 + 0 = 0 for minimum J?
 
astrocytosis said:
Ok, that makes sense; somehow I missed that L is just the sum of each electron's l. So for Ti S = 1, L = 4, and J = 1 since L = l + l = 0 + 0 = 0 for minimum J?
You want the minimum ## J ## (since the shell is half-filled or less) with the maximum ## L ## and maximum ## S ##. Since ## \vec{J}=\vec{L}+\vec{S} ##, with the way it works, when ## L=4 ## (which is the correct maximum L) and ## S=1 ## (which is the correct maximum S), the available J's are 5,4, and 3. The minimum of these is 3. (With this state comes an ## m_J ##, but they are not asking for that.) ## \\ ## Additional note: Here (for Titanium) we are basically working with the 2 ## 3d ## electrons since the ## 4s^2 ## forms a closed shell. The ## \vec{L}=\vec{l_1}+\vec{l_2} ## is first computed, and then the ## \vec{S}=\vec{s_1}+\vec{s_2} ## and then finally the ## \vec{J}=\vec{L}+\vec{S} ##
 
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How do you obtain the other available J's? Also wouldn't the maximum L be 3 because of the way the d subshells fills up; there are 5 subshells and each subshell has a different l (from -2 to 2) so you would get 2(1) + 1(1) = 3 if there are 2 electrons in two different subshells?
 
astrocytosis said:
How do you obtain the other available J's? Also wouldn't the maximum L be 3 because of the way the d subshells fills up; there are 5 subshells and each subshell has a different l (from -2 to 2) so you would get 2(1) + 1(1) = 3 if there are 2 electrons in two different subshells?
I am no expert on this, but also on a learning curve. A google (hyperphysics) shows the S=1 state is symmetric so the only allowed L's for S=1 are are L=1 and L=3 since these states are antisymmetric. (The total electron state must be antisymmetric). With the maximum L=3 and maximum S=1, the available J's are 4,3, and 2 and the minimum J=2 would be the ground state by Hund's 3rd rule. There is also, I think, the possibility of S=0 and L=4. Exactly how the d shells fill in is beyond my expertise in this area. Even the case of the p orbitals with two p electrons would be something I would need to research further.
 

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