Using MgSO4 for Producing H2SO4?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential use of magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) and calcium sulfate (CaSO4) in chemical reactions to produce sulfuric acid (H2SO4) from phosphorus and water. Participants explore the feasibility of these reactions and the implications of acid-base interactions, particularly in relation to metathesis reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Jeff proposes a reaction involving phosphorus, magnesium sulfate, and water to produce magnesium phosphide, phosphoric acid, and sulfuric acid, questioning its feasibility.
  • Another participant notes that magnesium and calcium are not alkali metals, but rather alkaline earth metals, which Jeff acknowledges.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the proposed reaction with magnesium sulfate, stating that copper phosphide is stable and does not react with water, implying that similar stability may apply to other phosphides.
  • There is a discussion about the possibility of using metathesis to mix oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate, with one participant suggesting that removing the weaker acid anion through precipitation could facilitate the formation of a stronger acid.
  • Jeff expresses mixed feelings about the potential outcomes of the proposed reactions, indicating both disappointment and intrigue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not agree on the feasibility of using magnesium or calcium sulfates in the proposed reactions, with some expressing skepticism while others explore the theoretical possibilities. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical outcomes of these chemical interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the stability of certain phosphides and the role of precipitation in acid-base reactions, but the discussion does not clarify the specific conditions or assumptions that may affect these reactions.

JeffEvarts
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Background: Phosphorus + Copper Sulfate:

I know that the following (unbalanced) reaction proceeds from left to right from this reference, possibly with the formation of elemental copper as well.

P4 + CuSO4 + H2O -> Cu3P + H3PO4 + H2SO4.​

This reference (which gets the stochiometry and formula slightly different) agrees.

The net-net is that Phosphorus, Water, and M1SO4 produce (very dilute) H2SO4.

Question One: Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium or Calcium Sulfates in place of the copper sulfate?

P4 + MgSO4 + H2O -> Mg3P2 + H3PO4 + H2SO4?​

Question Two: It seems unlikely that a weaker acid could make a stronger one, but metathesis is a powerful ally. Can you really mix oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate? Anyone tried it IRL?

Thanks for your thoughts,
-Jeff
 
Last edited:
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Mg and Ca are not alkali metals. You are one column in the periodic table over from the alkali metals (Li, Na, K, etc.)
 
JeffEvarts said:
Question One: Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium or Calcium Sulfates in place of the copper sulfate?

Highly unlikely. Copper phosphide is very stable and doesn't react with water, which can't be said about other phosphides.

Question Two: It seems unlikely that a weaker acid could make a stronger one, but metathesis is a powerful ally. Can you really mix oxalic acid and magnesium sulfate to produce sulfuric acid and magnesium oxalate? Anyone tried it IRL?

If you can remove weaker acid anion by precipitating it out of the solution, you can be left with a stronger acid, precipitation being the driving force of the process. It won't let you make concentrated solutions of the stronger acid, but is definitely possible.
 
And yet

In response to my statement:
Would this work with an alkali such as Magnesium
Steamking responded:
SteamKing said:
Mg and Ca are not alkali metals. You are one column in the periodic table over from the alkali metals (Li, Na, K, etc.)

That is true, but I just referred to them as alkalis. I believe the column group containing Ca, Mg, etc. is called the alkaline Earth metals. Or maybe that's not what they're called anymore. It has been a long time since I was in class studying.

-Jeff
 
Borek said:
Highly unlikely. Copper phosphide is very stable and doesn't react with water, which can't be said about other phosphides.

If you can remove weaker acid anion by precipitating it out of the solution, you can be left with a stronger acid, precipitation being the driving force of the process. It won't let you make concentrated solutions of the stronger acid, but is definitely possible.

Q1: That's a shame
Q2: That's actually pretty cool.

Again I find myself thanking you, Borek.

-Jeff
 

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