Visual depiction of atomic orbitals

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter hokhani
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the representation of atomic orbitals, specifically the p_x orbital, and its wavefunction, which is expressed as ##f(\theta)e^{i\phi}##. Participants clarify that while the p-orbitals are represented as dumbbell-shaped in literature, the probability density is independent of the azimuthal angle ##\phi##. The spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}## for ##l=1## illustrate this, with the p_x orbital being a linear combination of the p_y and p_z orbitals. The conversation emphasizes the distinction between real-valued and complex-valued orbitals in chemistry and physics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of wavefunctions in quantum mechanics
  • Familiarity with spherical harmonics and their applications
  • Knowledge of atomic orbitals and their shapes
  • Basic grasp of quantum numbers (n, l, m)
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the mathematical formulation of spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}##
  • Explore the differences between real-valued and complex-valued orbitals in quantum mechanics
  • Investigate the use of simulators for visualizing atomic orbitals
  • Learn about the implications of quantum numbers on atomic structure and bonding
USEFUL FOR

Students and educators in physics and chemistry, particularly those interested in atomic structure, quantum mechanics, and the visualization of atomic orbitals.

hokhani
Messages
581
Reaction score
20
TL;DR
Why do the orbitals' shape show the directional dependence?
The wavefunction of an atomic orbital like ##p_x##-orbital is generally in the form ##f(\theta)e^{i\phi}## so the probability of the presence of particle is identical at all the directional angles ##\phi##. However, it is dumbbell-shape along the x direction which shows ##\phi##-dependence!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Can you provide an example?
 
PeroK said:
Can you provide an example?
Sorry, I don't know which example do you mean? As far as I understand, the spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}## are atomic orbitals. For ##l=1## they present p orbitals which are introduced as dumbbell shaped in the literatures. In fact, I don't know how the atomic orbitals are represented in the real space? It seems that the probability is represented by radius length.
 
hokhani said:
Sorry, I don't know which example do you mean? As far as I understand, the spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}## are atomic orbitals. For ##l=1## they present p orbitals which are introduced as dumbbell shaped in the literatures. In fact, I don't know how the atomic orbitals are represented in the real space? It seems that the probability is represented by radius length.
You claim the literature shows shapes without a symmetry implied by the harmonic function they represent. Let's see an example of what you are talking about.

I don't believe there are any such examples.
 
hokhani said:
I don't know which example do you mean?
He means providing a reference to an actual textbook or peer reviewed paper that says this:

hokhani said:
The wavefunction of an atomic orbital like ##p_x##-orbital is generally in the form ##f(\theta)e^{i\phi}##
 
hokhani said:
The wavefunction of an atomic orbital like ##p_x##-orbital is generally in the form ##f(\theta)e^{i\phi}## so the probability of the presence of particle is identical at all the directional angles ##\phi##. However, it is dumbbell-shape along the x direction which shows ##\phi##-dependence!
Wavefunctions are usually written down in a coordinate system where the z-axis is singled out, i.e. the azimuthal quantum number ## m ## refers to the component of angular momentum in the z-direction. For p-orbitals having ## l=1 ## we have one wavefunction (## m=0 ##) proportional to ##\cos \theta ## and two wavefunctions (## m =\pm 1 ##) proportional to ## \sin \theta \ e^{\pm i \phi} ##. The first wavefunction (the "##p_z##-orbital") has the familiar dumbbell shape, oriented in the z-direction. But since these states have the same energy, you can form linear combinations of the other two wavefunctions to produce "##p_x##" and "##p_y##" orbitals. Of course, ## \theta ## and ## \phi ## then refer to different angles.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: JimWhoKnew and hokhani
PeroK said:
You claim the literature shows shapes without a symmetry implied by the harmonic function they represent. Let's see an example of what you are talking about.
I think you agree that the p-orbitals are spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}(\theta, \phi) \propto P_l^{m}(cos \theta) e^{im\phi}## with ##l=1## (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics). For ##m=1##, the orbital shape is a dumbbell along the x-axis (please see: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Schrodinger_model_of_the_atom.svg) while it is proportional to ##e^{i\phi}##. In fact, I don't know what the dumbbell -shaped ##p_x## orbital shows? If it shows the presence probability at ##(\theta, \phi)##, this probability must be independent of ##\phi## and the dumbbell doesn't make sense.
 
PeterDonis said:
He means providing a reference to an actual textbook or peer reviewed paper that says this:
The Spherical harmonics are in the form ##\gamma_l^{m}(\theta, \phi) \propto P_l^{m}(cos \theta) e^{im\phi}## (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics).
 
hokhani said:
I think you agree that the p-orbitals are spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}(\theta, \phi) \propto P_l^{m}(cos \theta) e^{im\phi}## with ##l=1## (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics). For ##m=1##, the orbital shape is a dumbbell along the x-axis (please see: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Schrodinger_model_of_the_atom.svg) while it is proportional to ##e^{i\phi}##. In fact, I don't know what the dumbbell -shaped ##p_x## orbital shows? If it shows the presence probability at ##(\theta, \phi)##, this probability must be independent of ##\phi## and the dumbbell doesn't make sense.
Those look like the real and imaginary parts of the spherical harmonic.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: hokhani
  • #10
hokhani said:
I think you agree that the p-orbitals are spherical harmonics ##\gamma_l^{m}(\theta, \phi) \propto P_l^{m}(cos \theta) e^{im\phi}## with ##l=1## (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_harmonics). For ##m=1##, the orbital shape is a dumbbell along the x-axis (please see: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Schrodinger_model_of_the_atom.svg) while it is proportional to ##e^{i\phi}##. In fact, I don't know what the dumbbell -shaped ##p_x## orbital shows? If it shows the presence probability at ##(\theta, \phi)##, this probability must be independent of ##\phi## and the dumbbell doesn't make sense.
##Y^m_l## is a function of two variables that has complex values on a sphere. Following @WernerQH in post #6, ##p_z## is described by ##Y^0_1## which is real. It is visualized by the middle "dumbbell" in the second line here. It is not the spatial distribution! It uses the 3 dimensions to express ##\theta, \phi, Y^0_1(\theta,\phi)## simultaneously. Somewhat like the way in which we express the strength of the electrostatic field by the density of the force lines. The larger the distance of the dumbbell's surface from the origin, the larger ##\left|Y^0_1\right|## in that direction. So the dumbbell shape means that ##\left|Y^0_1\right|## is maximal at the poles of the sphere and vanishes on the equator (and independent of ##\phi## , of course). If you'll use colors on the sphere instead, like in a topographic map, it will look more like a physical dumbbell. If you want to express probability density in this way, draw ##\left|Y^0_1\right|^2## . If you'll rotate the dumbbell of ##p_z## by ##\pm\pi/2## around the y-axis, you'll get the dumbbell that visualizes ##p_x## (looks like the dumbbell on the right of the second line in the picture, although it visualizes something else). It is not independent of ##\phi## like ##p_z## , because ##\phi## is defined relative to the z-axis. However, you can easily see that the ##p_x## dumbbell is invariant under rotations around the x-axis.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: hokhani, PeterDonis, Nugatory and 2 others
  • #11
JimWhoKnew said:
It uses the 3 dimensions to express ##\theta, \phi, Y^0_1(\theta,\phi)## simultaneously.
As you clearly outlined, ##\gamma_l^m## has complex values on a sphere. In the case of ##p_z## there is no problem because ##\gamma## is real. But generally, ##\gamma=Re+iIm## and so the complex number ##\gamma_1^{+1(-1)}## cannot be represented as dumbbell-shaped ##p_{x(y)}##. Following @WernerQH in post #6, it seems that ##p_{x(y)}=\frac{\gamma_1^1 +(-) \gamma_1^{-1}}{\sqrt(2)}##, right?
 
Last edited:
  • #12
hokhani said:
Following @WernerQH in post #6, it seems that ##p_{x(y)}=\frac{\gamma_1^1 +(-) \gamma_1^{-1}}{\sqrt(2)}##, right?
Divide your result corresponding to ##p_y## by ##i## (a global phase factor) and observe that now both expressions are real (and ##\phi##-dependent, as expected).
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: hokhani, PeterDonis and PeroK
  • #13
hokhani said:
For ##m=1##, the orbital shape is a dumbbell along the x-axis (please see: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Schrodinger_model_of_the_atom.svg) while it is proportional to ##e^{i\phi}##.

Just to add to all the correct comments that were made already: The wording above is dangerous because it mixes two different pictures.
In chemistry, often real-valued orbitals are preferred, while in physics often complex-valued ones are used. When you explicitly talk about m=1, this implies that you are considering the complex-valued orbitals commonly used in physics as the standard orbitals in Chemistry are either those for m=0 or superpositions of m=+/-1.

While it might be difficult to see this from written words, my students typically benefit strongly from playing with this applet:
Simulator for orbitals

You can switch back and forth between the chemistry and the physics convention at the top and you will see that there are px/py/pz in the chemistry version and explicit values for m in the physics convention. for n=2, l=1 and m=+/- one, you will actually also see the rotation in the phase that corresponds to the angular momentum if you rotate the view to look at the x-y-plane.

It also makes sense that there are two conventions. In physics, e.g. an isolated hydrogen atom in free space is quite interesting, while in chemistry you will usually rarely have isolated atoms, but rather some chemical bond along some preferred direction, which is what you get by px/py/pz orbitals.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: hokhani, WernerQH and JimWhoKnew

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K