Visualizing the Atom: Find a Way to See Inside

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the visualization of atoms, specifically focusing on how to conceptualize and represent the internal structure of atoms. Participants explore various methods, including mathematical functions and graphical representations, while addressing the limitations of existing resources.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to visualize the inside of an atom, acknowledging that atoms cannot be seen directly.
  • Another participant suggests looking up radial wavefunctions and spherical harmonics for the hydrogen atom to understand electron probability distributions.
  • Several participants point out that links to resources provided earlier do not work, indicating a need for accurate references.
  • Images of electron orbitals for silicon and oxygen are shared, with one participant noting that color differences in an image imply internal structure.
  • Concerns are raised about the misleading nature of surrounding text in an image model of neon, particularly regarding the description of electron orbits as similar to planetary orbits.
  • A participant shares a link to a site called "Orbitron," which they find interesting for visualizing atomic orbitals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the challenges of accurately visualizing atomic structures and express skepticism about the accuracy of certain educational resources. However, there is no consensus on the best method for visualization or the interpretation of existing models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the accuracy of descriptions related to atomic structure, particularly regarding the depiction of electron paths and the nature of orbitals. There are unresolved issues regarding the reliability of the provided links and resources.

mistersmith
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I know that the atom cannot be seen. May be the exterior of a few
large atoms. I know that the inside of an atom cannot be seen. But I
would like to find a way to visualize an atom. How can I visualize the
inside of an atom?
 
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Which atom do want to visualise? If the hydrogen atom, then look up the radial wavefunctions for the H atom (http://webphysics.davidson.edu/physletprob/ch10_modern/radial.html), and the spherical harmonics.

The products of these functions will tell you the probability distributions of the electron in the atom, when it has a known definite energy.
 
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your link: http://webphysics.davidson.edu/physl...n/radial.html does not work
 
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Here is silicon--electron orbitals:
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ure+of+inside+of+atom&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
Here is oxygen, color differences imply internal structure:http://images.google.com/imgres?img...f+neutron+inside+atom&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=G
I like the image model of neon in this link--it shows the importance of electron orbitals:http://images.google.com/imgres?img...tom&start=120&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
Here is a time line of when various internal parts of the atom where discovered--not much action in the past decade:http://lappweb.in2p3.fr/vulgarisation/initour/Images/timeline.gif
 
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mistersmith said:
your link: http://webphysics.davidson.edu/physl...n/radial.html does not work

I'm sorry: I pasted it in wrong. A quick google search for hydrogen atom wavefunctions, gives the correct link:

http://webphysics.davidson.edu/faculty/dmb/hydrogen/intro_hyd.html

If you're not sure what the [itex]n, l, m[/itex] quantum numbers mean, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_atom#Mathematical_summary_of_eigenstates_of_hydrogen_atom. This shows the functions that are solutions of the energy-eigenvalue equation: i.e. these functions squared represent the probability distribution of the electron with a known energy [itex]E_n.[/itex]
 
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Rade said:
I like the image model of neon in this link--it shows the importance of electron orbitals:http://images.google.com/imgres?img...tom&start=120&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N
It may show orbitals well, but the surrounding text is terribly misleading.

"The number of electrons located outside the nucleus of an atom is always the same as the number of protons. An atom with seven protons in its nucleus (no matter how many neutrons) also has seven electrons outside the nucleus. Those electrons travel in paths around the nucleus somewhat similar to the orbits followed by planets around the Sun."
 
DaveC426913 said:
It may show orbitals well, but the surrounding text is terribly misleading.
You can say that again. :rolleyes: That entire page is just so completely wrong - heck, they weren't even careful enough to get the opening sentence right!

Here's a site I think is neat: http://winter.group.shef.ac.uk/orbitron/
 
It may show orbitals well, but the surrounding text is terribly misleading.:biggrin:
 

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