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We will NEVER fully understand Consciousness because we're PART of it.

  1. Apr 18, 2009 #1
    From everything I've studied, I've come to the conclusion that we will never FULLY grasp what it means to be a conscious being, because we are PART of the system. It's like trying to understand the structure of a 'box' when you are inside of the box. You can't know what it looks like unless you enlist an outside perspective.

    I think in order to fully understand consciousness, one has to die. Not that I believe in death- there is no death in all the Universes..death is merely a transition phase from a human being into another different entity/existence. Only THEN, can we fully comprehend the meaning of consciousness.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 18, 2009 #2
    "A fish cannot comprehend the existence of water. He is too deeply immersed in it."

    -Sir Oliver Lodge
     
  4. Apr 19, 2009 #3
    Good quote there!

    It'd be like trying to comprehend the meaning of reality whilst being stuck in a dream - you simply can't. The only way is to leave the dream, ie wake up. So to comprehend this existence/consciousness one must leave THIS life in order to look back on it from the 'OUTSIDE'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
  5. Apr 19, 2009 #4

    disregardthat

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    Too bad death won't give us consciousness in any way.
     
  6. Apr 19, 2009 #5
    It'd be another form of consciousness, I presume but something higher beyond our mere human minds. :)
     
  7. Apr 19, 2009 #6

    disregardthat

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    Why would you think that we would have awareness when the prerequisite for it has decomposed?
     
  8. Apr 19, 2009 #7
    Because like energy, awareness can't be created nor destroyed. What were you before you were human?
     
  9. Apr 19, 2009 #8
    Watching too much stargate, Zdenka :P
     
  10. Apr 19, 2009 #9
    This assumes awareness is a 'thing', rather than a process. You're basically claiming that souls exist. There is no scientific basis for this. Energy can be measured, but awareness, not so much.

    Its like asking where 'walking' or 'running' disappear to, when you sit down for a rest.
     
  11. Apr 20, 2009 #10
    Maybe awareness is like a more advance science. It can be measured with technology that is ubber advanced say, 1.2 billion years from now.
     
  12. Apr 21, 2009 #11
    I thought awareness was a product of electricity in the brain.

    If you lobotomize a part of your frontal lobe and loose your sense of smell and taste, has your sense of smell and taste evolved into something higher?
     
  13. Apr 24, 2009 #12
    No one can be told what the Matrix is. You need to see it for yourself. You need to get out of the system.
     
  14. Apr 24, 2009 #13
    Who is trying to "fully grasp" what it means to be a concious being? What an idiotic pursuit.
     
  15. Apr 25, 2009 #14

    Math Is Hard

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    You seem to be employing a metaphor used for a different situation. In The Matrix, living people were having modified experiences of their reality manipulated by machines. Living people attached to the machines had one experience of reality, while those (living people) that had disengaged themselves had another (presumably, the authentic one). The movie never addressed what experience dead bodies had, whether Matrix-engaged or not.
     
  16. Apr 25, 2009 #15

    arildno

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    "From everything I've studied, I've come to the conclusion that we will never FULLY grasp what it means to be a conscious being, because we are PART of the system. It's like trying to understand the structure of a 'box' when you are inside of the box. You can't know what it looks like unless you enlist an outside perspective.
    "

    As it happens, we are inside an awfully big box called the universe, and there doesn't seem much hope for us to get on the outside of it.

    Still, I think we have done pretty well of comprehending the box we're in. :smile:
     
  17. Apr 29, 2009 #16
    I can't measure your awareness certianly, but I'm having no trouble measuring my own.
     
  18. Apr 29, 2009 #17
    So how does one go about measuring awareness? What sort of yard stick do you use?
     
  19. Apr 29, 2009 #18
    I was taking awareness to be binary. Either I am aware or I am not.
     
  20. Apr 30, 2009 #19
    Its not really a binary though, if you've ever been drunk or really tired, or focused on a specific task, your 'level of awareness' can be said to vary. And it can disappear and reappear in an instant.

    But really my point is, you can't measure awareness without being aware. So its a time dependent process, without external reference. It requires a sense of continuity with the past. That sense of continuity is not implicit when observing an apple, for instance. It is implicit when you are watching a horse race. The horses and the apples are things, but the 'horse race' is a process, not a thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
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