Wedge product of a 2-form with a 1-form

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the wedge product of a 2-form and a 1-form in the context of vector fields on a manifold, specifically in \( \mathbb{R}^3 \). Participants explore how to express the wedge product \( (\omega \wedge \tau)(X,Y,Z) \) in terms of the values of the forms \( \omega \) and \( \tau \) on the vector fields \( X, Y, Z \). The conversation includes technical reasoning and clarifications regarding the properties of forms and their applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to handle the wedge product with three vector fields, having previously only dealt with one vector field.
  • Another participant points out that the wedge product of a 2-form and a 1-form results in a 3-form, which requires three vector arguments.
  • There is a discussion about the correct formulation of the wedge product, with one participant suggesting a potential formula but expressing doubt about its correctness.
  • Concerns are raised regarding whether the proposed result is fully anti-symmetric, which is a fundamental property of n-forms.
  • Some participants indicate that there may be gaps in understanding the transition from 1-forms to higher-order tensors and n-forms.
  • One participant mentions their learning resource, indicating they are still grasping the concepts involved.
  • Another participant offers a reference to a concept related to alternating n-linear functions, but acknowledges that access to external resources may be limited for some participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the formulation of the wedge product or its properties. There are multiple competing views and ongoing uncertainty regarding the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion about the properties of n-forms, particularly regarding their anti-symmetry and how this affects the formulation of the wedge product. There are indications that foundational concepts may not be fully covered in the learning materials being used.

GR191511
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Let ##\omega## be 2-form and ##\tau## 1-form on ##R^3## If X,Y,Z are vector fields on a manifold,find a formula for ##(\omega\bigwedge\tau)(X,Y,Z)## in terms of the values of ##\omega## and ##\tau ## on the vector fields X,Y,Z.
I have known how to deal with only one vector field.But there are three vector fields,I have no idea.
 
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GR191511 said:
I have known how to deal with only one vector field.
Please expand on what you mean by this. The wedge product of a 2-form and a 1-form is a 3-form and so must take 3 vector arguments.
 
Orodruin said:
Please expand on what you mean by this. The wedge product of a 2-form and a 1-form is a 3-form and so must take 3 vector arguments.
Thank you.
I know ##\omega (X) = (a_idx^i)(b^j\frac{\partial }{\partial x^j})=a_ib^i## but ##(\omega\bigwedge\tau)(X,Y,Z)=?##
 
GR191511 said:
Thank you.
I know ##\omega (X) = (a_idx^i)(b^j\frac{\partial }{\partial x^j})=a_ib^i##
In the case you have presented in the OP, ##\omega## is a 2-form so this is not true. What you have written here is true if it is a 1-form. It feels like you may have skipped some reading regarding how to go from 1-forms to higher order (0,n) tensors in general and n-forms in particular?
 
Orodruin said:
In the case you have presented in the OP, ##\omega## is a 2-form so this is not true. What you have written here is true if it is a 1-form. It feels like you may have skipped some reading regarding how to go from 1-forms to higher order (0,n) tensors in general and n-forms in particular?
Thank you!I'm learning from 《An introduction to manifolds》Loring W.Tu...All I know now is that:
##\omega\bigwedge\tau = a_Ib_Jdx^I\bigwedge dx^J## and ##(f\bigwedge g)(v_1,v_2,v_3)=f(v_1,v_2)g(v_3)-f(v_1,v_3)g(v_2)+f(v_2,v_3)g(v_1)## ...I don't know what I should do next.
 
GR191511 said:
Thank you!I'm learning from 《An introduction to manifolds》Loring W.Tu...All I know now is that:
##\omega\bigwedge\tau = a_Ib_Jdx^I\bigwedge dx^J## and ##(f\bigwedge g)(v_1,v_2,v_3)=f(v_1,v_2)g(v_3)-f(v_1,v_3)g(v_2)+f(v_2,v_3)g(v_1)## ...I don't know what I should do next.
The first of those relations is the wedge between two 1-forms. The second describes a two-form ##f## with a one-form ##g## - which also happens to be the case you are asked about.
 
Orodruin said:
The first of those relations is the wedge between two 1-forms. The second describes a two-form ##f## with a one-form ##g## - which also happens to be the case you are asked about.
Thanks.But ##v_1,v_2,v_3## is vector from ##R^1## while X,Y,Z are three vector fields
Maybe the answer is##(\omega\bigwedge\tau)(X,Y,Z)=\omega(X,Y)\tau(Z)-\omega(X,Z)\tau(Y)+\omega(Y,Z)\tau(X)##But It always feels like something is wrong.
 
GR191511 said:
But v1,v2,v3 is vector from
No, they are not.
 
GR191511 said:
Maybe the answer is(ω⋀τ)(X,Y,Z)=ω(X,Y)τ(Z)−ω(X,Z)τ(Y)+ω(Y,Z)τ(X)But It always feels like something is wrong.
Is your result fully anti-symmetric?
 
  • #10
Orodruin said:
Is your result fully anti-symmetric?
The question don't mention that. I'm not sure about it either.
 
  • #11
GR191511 said:
The question don't mention that. I'm not sure about it either.
Again, this seems to imply that you are missing information fundamental to n-forms (namely that they are fully anti-symmetric (0,n) tensors). If this is not covered by your textbook, I would suggest looking up another textbook that does.
 
  • #12
Orodruin said:
Again, this seems to imply that you are missing information fundamental to n-forms (namely that they are fully anti-symmetric (0,n) tensors). If this is not covered by your textbook, I would suggest looking up another textbook that does.
Is that "alternating n-linear function on a vector space"? I have seen it...it confused me
 

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