Were Native Americans doomed to be wiped out by disease?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the impact of European diseases on Native American populations following European contact, exploring whether the resulting demographic collapse was inevitable and if there were alternative historical paths that could have allowed for adaptation. Participants also examine the reasons behind the differing impacts of diseases on European and Native American populations, as well as the potential for Native American diseases to affect Europeans.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the estimates of Native American populations prior to European contact are likely underestimated due to the rapid spread of European diseases, which may have reduced populations by 90-95% before significant European conquest.
  • There is a question about whether the collapse of Native American populations was inevitable, given that contact with Europeans was bound to happen eventually.
  • Some participants inquire about the current susceptibility of indigenous populations in regions like Peru and Bolivia to old-world diseases and whether they have developed any immunities over time.
  • Several participants express curiosity about why Europeans were not similarly wiped out by Native American diseases, with some proposing that it might relate to genetic diversity differences between the populations.
  • There is a discussion about the lack of historical records regarding diseases that may have traveled from Native Americans to Europeans, with some participants speculating that such diseases could have had significant impacts.
  • One participant argues that European colonizers did suffer high mortality rates from Native American diseases, particularly in the early years of colonization, suggesting that the core European population remained largely unaffected while the Native American population faced devastating impacts from introduced diseases.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that Native Americans were "doomed," proposing that had the roles been reversed, Europeans might have faced similar catastrophic outcomes from Native American diseases.
  • Some participants note that while European diseases were particularly lethal to Native Americans, there were also diseases present in the Americas that could have affected Europeans, though evidence is scarce.
  • There is a discussion about the logistical challenges faced by early colonizers in bringing domestic animals to the Americas and how this might have influenced disease dynamics between the two populations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the inevitability of the demographic collapse of Native Americans due to disease, with no clear consensus on whether alternative historical outcomes were possible. There is also disagreement regarding the comparative impacts of diseases on both populations, with some arguing for significant mortality among Europeans and others questioning this perspective.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of comprehensive historical records regarding Native American diseases and their effects on Europeans, as well as the complexities involved in understanding the dynamics of disease spread and immunity across different populations.

  • #31
Ryan_m_b said:
This is not a credible source. I know that this is the social sciences forum but please stick to published research rather than magazine articles.

Mann is a credible popular science writer who summarizes a large body of research in his book 1492 and the Atlantic Article, which summarizes much of it. Much more productive for an amateur discussion than digging up a bunch of potentially conflicting journal articles when no one has the expertise to understand on which issues there is consensus and which are currently being debated

Michael Coe,

Charles J. MacCurdy Professor of Anthropology, Emeritus, at Yale University, is recognized for his work on the archaeology and ethnohistory of Mesoamerica, the historical archaeology of the northeastern United States, and ancient writing systems. He is the author of many books on Mesoamerica, including Breaking the Maya Code (Thames and Hudson, 1992; revised edition, 1999).

reviewed the work positively in the American Scientist (http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/the-old-new-world)

writing:

Reading 1491, one soon learns about the horrifying devastation that Old World diseases worked throughout the New World. This was the greatest demographic disaster ever suffered by Homo sapiens. In Mesoamerica alone, only 10 percent of the Indian population was alive a century after the Conquest. As Jared Diamond has made clear in his justly renowned Guns, Germs, and Steel, these scourges ran ahead of the European invaders, so that the seeds of defeat were already planted in empires like the Aztec and Inca even before the conquistadores arrived.
...

Mann has written an impressive and highly readable book. Even though one can disagree with some of his inferences from the data, he does give both sides of the most important arguments. 1491 is a fitting tribute to those Indians, present and past, whose cause he is championing
 
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  • #32
I had long thought, from reading popularly here and there, that Native Americans were at such a disadvantage to the Europeans from disease was because Europe had i) the widespread existence of large cities with dense populations and ii) centuries of long distance trade/and or conquest in Europe, Africa and Asia. Travel and dense cities acted together to create more virulent diseases and, over time, build immunity. See going back to Alexander, where he and his armies suffered plagues as they traveled through Africa and Asia, the same tale repeating with subsequent invaders through the centuries. The Europeans and nature thus had several thousand years to both create diseases and adapt to them, a period which the native North Americans in continental isolation never had.
 

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